Why does the fuel pump not do well with ethanol?

[Crazy Drew]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I posted this in the "crickets" thread a while back. On my old BMW they had probs with the DI fuel pump, and someone suggested running a capfull of synthetic 2-stroke oil per tankfull of gas, and that was supposed to help.

I haven't had the crickets, but I bet this trick would work. It certainly wouldn't hurt anything to try.

Does the oil not kill the catalytic converters? From what I've seen this definitely has a chance to impact the lifetime of a cat.

From what I've seen, running only 93 with 10% Ethanol, Shell and Valero are the only gas that doesn't squeek in my car. Also, from what I've seen in my car the squeeking has to do with how much load the HPFP is under. Coming straight off the highway cruising at low RPM (almost all DI) the pump is quiet but if I idle at a light straight off the highway the squeeks get louder as the HPFP transitions to almost no load an bypasses a lot of fuel. I almost don't think it's ethanol related however what lubricants are used in the fuel and how the HPFP return deals with it. IMHO its the "return" system from it that squeeks.

[JerryMichaels7]

Crickets prior to e85...no crickets after e85....its not the Fuel or ethonal content...

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by JerryMichaels7

Crickets prior to e85...no crickets after e85....its not the Fuel or ethonal content...

Well, i agree it's not ethanol content. From reading the tsb's (subaru has 3 revisions, toyota has 2) the root cause is air entrapment in the pump.

I can see how various fuels with different additive packages etc would have different likely hood of producing the needed bubbles at different temperatures and pressures, but i still don't believe it is the ethanol content that is the issue.

Also of note, you will only hear the crickets when idling on DI injectors only. Normally the switch over from port only idle to DI only idle occurs right around the time the coolant gets up to operating temp, but there are times it does not switch over when expected. This is part of the reason they come and go.

[86viper]

I had zero chirps for 15000km

The very day i switched to E85 they were there, quite loud.

Now 5000km later, i use the same fuel and they have reduced to the point where it has to be silent outside to hear them.

Absolutely zero problems running E85 as well.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Clembo

If I had to guess it would be the less lubricating properties of alcohol vs. petroleum-based gasoline.

BTW, I can only get 10% ethanol here and have no chirp. Or at least my 63 year old ears are so damaged I can't hear it. Then again, no one looks at me funny at traffic lights so maybe it's really not there.

So, old timer ...... I must ask ....If your car's fuel pump chirps ..... and you can't hear it ...... is it making a chirping sound ..... ??


humfrz

(sorry, it's a slow day here in Puyallup)

[jeffchap]

For all I know, mine could be chirping like crazy, but with my tinnitus, I'll never hear it.

[zooki]

Originally Posted by swpbrz

It for sure has to do with the ethanol. The day I bought my car it was fine. The very first fill up with 10 % ethanol was immediate chirps. It really isn't even a question. At least one cause for the chirping is this. I left the state and as soon as I fill up with a non ethanol blend it goes away. Again for sure atleast one thing for sure 100 % is the ethanol. It sucks your on here diluting a possible solution because you dont have identical symptoms

So, if someone else's experience with ethanol free fuel, or E85, or E10 fuel differs from your experience it's suddenly invalid? If they run pure gas and their fuel pump chirps they're lying? It it were ethanol content EVERY car that runs ethanol mixed gas would chirp, and NO car that runs pure gas would, and that doesn't seem to be the case from reading of everyone's experiences on this forum.

[mike the snake]

From what I gathered, running a capfull of 2 stroke oil per tankfull is fine and won't impact the cats at all. It's a very tiny amount of oil.

Originally Posted by Crazy Drew

Does the oil not kill the catalytic converters? From what I've seen this definitely has a chance to impact the lifetime of a cat.

From what I've seen, running only 93 with 10% Ethanol, Shell and Valero are the only gas that doesn't squeek in my car. Also, from what I've seen in my car the squeeking has to do with how much load the HPFP is under. Coming straight off the highway cruising at low RPM (almost all DI) the pump is quiet but if I idle at a light straight off the highway the squeeks get louder as the HPFP transitions to almost no load an bypasses a lot of fuel. I almost don't think it's ethanol related however what lubricants are used in the fuel and how the HPFP return deals with it. IMHO its the "return" system from it that squeeks.

[jtsimaras]

For me 10%ethanol blend caused chirp....now on non blend no chirp maybe luck �� no idea

[Swole]

Originally Posted by quasi86

With me they've been gone since the weather turned cold here in St Louis. However on the couple of days recently that it has gotten warmer I can definitely hear them again.

We have 93 around here and it is 10% ethanol. I almost exclusively use Quiktrip to refill.

Temperature has effected/eliminated the crickets for the time being, but I fear they will return.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

Glad to know I am not the only one suspecting warm temperature brought crickets back.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Swole

Glad to know I am not the only one suspecting warm temperature brought crickets back.

I have never once experienced crickets in the winter. It has always been over 60 degrees and with ethanol added fuel. The hotter it gets the louder they got. Then last summer they just stopped in mid chirp one day and never came back. I suppose my fuel pump is broke but the car still runs so all is good.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Swole

Glad to know I am not the only one suspecting warm temperature brought crickets back.

When I use no ethanol 91, my crickets stop. When the temperature dips below 50 degrees F, regardless of the fuel I use, the crickets stop. In my experience, ethanol and temperature both affect the noise

[sly]

I get no crickets with Ethanol Free. Using E10, no crickets when running Exxon/Mobil gas. All other brands produce crickets.

[Dr. BRZ]

I get the chirps on 91 not e85