Why does the fuel pump not do well with ethanol? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

boredom.is.me · 05-22-2013, 06:01 AM

We all (most) know of and have the dreaded chirp. It has been known for quite a while that the chirp is emitted from the fuel pump when ethanol enriched fuel is used. But what exactly does the ethanol do that causes the pump to scream?

Clembo · 05-22-2013, 09:09 AM

If I had to guess it would be the less lubricating properties of alcohol vs. petroleum-based gasoline.

BTW, I can only get 10% ethanol here and have no chirp. Or at least my 63 year old ears are so damaged I can't hear it. Then again, no one looks at me funny at traffic lights so maybe it's really not there.

Sportsguy83 · 05-22-2013, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boredom.is.me

We all (most) know of and have the dreaded chirp. It has been known for quite a while that the chirp is emitted from the fuel pump when ethanol enriched fuel is used. But what exactly does the ethanol do that causes the pump to scream?

I don't think there's enough proof of this (Link to the proof if it does exist). AFAIK, this was a theory thrown out there in the early months after the car was released. I believe the pump chirps just because.... Its the same reason other DI cars have weird sounds, these pumps are just loud and make weird sounds.

Furthermore, if this theory were true, then cars running E85 would sound like they are about to explode and very different then cars running 93, right?

Rayme · 05-22-2013, 09:24 AM

The pump uses fuel as it's lubricant.

wparsons · 05-22-2013, 09:36 AM

Sometimes I get the chirping noise on Shell 91 (zero ethanol), and sometimes it's totally silent on Petro 94 (10% ethanol). It comes and goes throughout a tank, so I don't think it's purely caused by the ethanol content.

Xero-Limit · 05-22-2013, 10:02 AM

The amount of lubrication needed is minimal, and I am not aware of studies that quantify it for this particular setup. E85 is not E100 for this (though not sole) reason. The 15% adds lubrication. My own car started chirping and regular old 93 octane nearly immediately after delivery (bought with 8 miles), and does it when it is hot no matter the fuel. I'm not concerned, it is a 3000 psi direct injection pump. 3000 psi is very loud. If I all I hear is crickets so be it. 8000 miles later no issues.

Kochinopride · 05-22-2013, 10:35 AM

I use e85 and I don't get chirps anywhere. Perhaps because I'm running an aftermarket pump. Are you using the stock pump?

Sportsguy83 · 05-22-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kochinopride

I use e85 and I don't get chirps anywhere. Perhaps because I'm running an aftermarket pump. Are you using the stock pump?

But he's talking about the chirping made by the High Pressure fuel pump, not the in tank pump.

I have have used obviously the OEM in tank pump, the Visconti in tank pump and the DW in tank pump and all of them of them have no effect on the HPFP chirping.

reeves · 05-22-2013, 11:40 AM

I've been using E85 for about 6K miles now with no problems.. filled up on 93 a couple of times during that stretch. The "chirping", if there is any, doesn't bother me. I might be one of the few who's never been bothered or worried about it.

Kochinopride · 05-22-2013, 11:49 AM

I don't get chirps :shrug:

Sportsguy83 · 05-22-2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kochinopride

I don't get chirps :shrug:

One of the very lucky few's

mad_sb · 05-22-2013, 12:21 PM

I believe toyota at one time thought it was related to ethanol content but from the reports we have on the forum, ethanol content makes zero difference as there are some folks on E Free fuels exclusively that have chirps all the way to people on E85 that have seen no change from E10.

Not to mention the change in lubricating properties from E0 to E10 are minimal at best.....

A5D5TRYR · 05-22-2013, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kochinopride

I don't get chirps :shrug:

For a while I wasn't sure if I had the chirping or not. Then I heard someone else's car that had it and realized I definitely do not. I've run both pure 91 and E10 94 and never seem to have it. I'm at about 5000 miles.

xjohnx · 05-22-2013, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kochinopride

I don't get chirps :shrug:

i was thinking i must be the only one. i even run e85 and no chirps.

maybe i'm deaf.

05-22-2013, 09:09 AM	#2
Clembo 'Senior' Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 13 FR-S,08 Mustang Bullitt,06 MX-5 Location: Southeastern CT Posts: 389 Thanks: 117 Thanked 213 Times in 122 Posts Mentioned: 16 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	If I had to guess it would be the less lubricating properties of alcohol vs. petroleum-based gasoline. BTW, I can only get 10% ethanol here and have no chirp. Or at least my 63 year old ears are so damaged I can't hear it. Then again, no one looks at me funny at traffic lights so maybe it's really not there. __________________ "You'll never know if you don't try" - Shinroko Momose

05-22-2013, 09:24 AM	#4
Rayme The Answer Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: Mazda 2 Location: Moncton, NB Posts: 1,233 Thanks: 488 Thanked 661 Times in 315 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The pump uses fuel as it's lubricant. __________________ \| Roof wrap thread

05-22-2013, 10:35 AM	#7
Kochinopride Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 13 FR-S, 12 CLS AMG, 05 Lotus Elise Location: Edgewater, NJ Posts: 532 Thanks: 103 Thanked 143 Times in 103 Posts Mentioned: 18 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I use e85 and I don't get chirps anywhere. Perhaps because I'm running an aftermarket pump. Are you using the stock pump? __________________ 2005 Lotus Elise 2012 Mercedes Benz CLS AMG 6.3 2013 Scion FR-S 2011 Land Rover LR4 2013 Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera

05-22-2013, 11:49 AM	#10
Kochinopride Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 13 FR-S, 12 CLS AMG, 05 Lotus Elise Location: Edgewater, NJ Posts: 532 Thanks: 103 Thanked 143 Times in 103 Posts Mentioned: 18 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I don't get chirps :shrug: __________________ 2005 Lotus Elise 2012 Mercedes Benz CLS AMG 6.3 2013 Scion FR-S 2011 Land Rover LR4 2013 Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera

05-22-2013, 12:21 PM	#12
mad_sb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Drives: 2013 Asphalt FR-S Location: Orange County Posts: 1,639 Thanks: 632 Thanked 982 Times in 537 Posts Mentioned: 100 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I believe toyota at one time thought it was related to ethanol content but from the reports we have on the forum, ethanol content makes zero difference as there are some folks on E Free fuels exclusively that have chirps all the way to people on E85 that have seen no change from E10. Not to mention the change in lubricating properties from E0 to E10 are minimal at best..... __________________ ~Namaste~ 2013 Asphalt FRS

05-22-2013, 10:02 AM	#6
Xero-Limit Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: JDL Turbo FRS, 335SC BRZ (ret) Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 938 Thanks: 368 Thanked 1,550 Times in 527 Posts Mentioned: 380 Post(s) Tagged: 6 Thread(s)	The amount of lubrication needed is minimal, and I am not aware of studies that quantify it for this particular setup. E85 is not E100 for this (though not sole) reason. The 15% adds lubrication. My own car started chirping and regular old 93 octane nearly immediately after delivery (bought with 8 miles), and does it when it is hot no matter the fuel. I'm not concerned, it is a 3000 psi direct injection pump. 3000 psi is very loud. If I all I hear is crickets so be it. 8000 miles later no issues.

05-22-2013, 11:40 AM	#9
reeves Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: BRZ Location: ATL, GA Posts: 1,021 Thanks: 289 Thanked 397 Times in 265 Posts Mentioned: 13 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I've been using E85 for about 6K miles now with no problems.. filled up on 93 a couple of times during that stretch. The "chirping", if there is any, doesn't bother me. I might be one of the few who's never been bothered or worried about it.

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