Easiest/Cheapest way to get more power?

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yes on constant rpm's scenarios it has been shown that the OEM pulley or even a better damper like the fluidampr pulley provide a few gains (1-2 whp). How much usefull is this on racing or ordinary drive situations is debatable since you usually want better results on acceleration and deceleration and not much during constant rpm's. The real difference with a solid crankshaft pulley is on acceleration situations. All these have been tested decades ago and let's not start here re-inventing the wheel. The original question was what are the cheapest changes and from my point of view I believe it is a pulley. If someone doesn't believe that there are any gains, then he can choose the other options.

Physics isn't a religion. Belief does not make something true in Physics. If something is true it can be proven true. Please point me to some documented evidence of your claim that increased vibration results in increased power output from an engine. A more solid crankshaft is indeed beneficial because there is less vibration, not more vibration. For decades they have been using pulleys, flywheels, and balance shafts to reduce vibration. I feel like you read something and drew the opposite conclusion as what the author was saying. Maybe it's a language barrier thing?

Also, you aren't generating much power in constant rpm situations. You are only overcoming losses. On a dyno that's friction in the dyno's bearings and power train losses including friction and vibration. Unless you are accelerating, the dyno will show 0 power and 0 torque, whether your engine makes 200 how or 2000hp. So no mod can show any gains under constant rpm.

Under constant rpm, a mod can definitely improve efficiency, which leads to more useful power. One of the leading ways OEMs are improving efficiency is to reduce vibrations, but what do they really know anyway.

[tomm.brz]

not the first time our friend likes to affirm something in a complete opposite direction as the other... same thing happened when talking about final drive gear
normally one would go to a shorter ratio, he instead suggests mounting a longer 3.7xx fd saying it would improve acceleration... like he s not aware that longer fd sucks up wheel torque

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yes on constant rpm's scenarios it has been shown that the OEM pulley or even a better damper like the fluidampr pulley provide a few gains (1-2 whp).

Which is funny because back to back dyno pulls will have 1-5hp variation.

If I do a dyno pull on my car with a Hello Kitty sticker on the intake manifold, peal it off, and do another one and I loose 3hp does that mean the sticker provided a gain?

We all know stickers are worth at least 5hp each in real life driving.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

not the first time our friend likes to affirm something in a complete opposite direction as the other... same thing happened when talking about final drive gear
normally one would go to a shorter ratio, he instead suggests mounting a longer 3.7xx fd saying it would improve acceleration... like he s not aware that longer fd sucks up wheel torque

Well, on that one he might have a point. A longer fd would mean you were in a lower gear at a higher speed. So if your combined ratio between the gearbox and fd were shorter, your acceleration would typically increase. Gearing is all about balance and the conditions you are trying to achieve.

Also, a slightly longer fd means one less shift to get to 60. Might decrease 0-60 times by a small amount if someone really cared about that.

Man has this gone OT...

[tomm.brz]

when threads has so generic topics and questions on it, is it really OT?
it s interesting what you said, didn t really thought about it
my car reach 0-60 in 2nd gear because i have 7650rpm rev limit, with 4.1 fd. would the 3.7 fd still accelerate faster , 0-60? considering same car, same power

[smg1138]

Catless headers + OFT + E85 are the best things I've done on this car. Makes a very noticeable difference in power and fun to drive factor. Add in some weight reduction and it gets even better.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

when threads has so generic topics and questions on it, is it really OT?
it s interesting what you said, didn t really thought about it
my car reach 0-60 in 2nd gear because i have 7650rpm rev limit, with 4.1 fd. would the 3.7 fd still accelerate faster , 0-60? considering same car, same power

Off the top of my head, idk. But some math should be able to get you a close estimate. That calculator I'm working on can be expanded for that.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Physics isn't a religion. Belief does not make something true in Physics. If something is true it can be proven true. Please point me to some documented evidence of your claim that increased vibration results in increased power output from an engine. A more solid crankshaft is indeed beneficial because there is less vibration, not more vibration. For decades they have been using pulleys, flywheels, and balance shafts to reduce vibration. I feel like you read something and drew the opposite conclusion as what the author was saying. Maybe it's a language barrier thing?

Also, you aren't generating much power in constant rpm situations. You are only overcoming losses. On a dyno that's friction in the dyno's bearings and power train losses including friction and vibration. Unless you are accelerating, the dyno will show 0 power and 0 torque, whether your engine makes 200 how or 2000hp. So no mod can show any gains under constant rpm.

Under constant rpm, a mod can definitely improve efficiency, which leads to more useful power. One of the leading ways OEMs are improving efficiency is to reduce vibrations, but what do they really know anyway.

Are you a high school student or something? Physics is just a tool to model reality. If your problem is complex, then you need a very detailed model and even in this case you need an experiment and measurements to verify your results. As I mentioned already the OEM pulley is too complex to model it by a simple inertia equation and your reasoning above has nothing to do with Physics (*). Besides, Toda Racing was experimenting with all these back in the '70s. If you want believe it, if you don't want then try something else. This is why my "belief" argument was mentioned. And what about the language barrier? When I am in doubt, I am using a professional human translator to translate text from Japanese to English.


(*) The only area of Physics that you don't need experiment/measurements is the Mathematical Physics area, but personally I consider it more of a branch of Mathematics and not so much a branch of Physics :b

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Are you a high school student or something? Physics is just a tool to model reality. If your problem is complex, then you need a very detailed model and even in this case you need an experiment and measurements to verify your results. As I mentioned already the OEM pulley is too complex to model it by a simple inertia equation and your reasoning above has nothing to do with Physics (*). Besides, Toda Racing was experimenting with all these back on the '70s. If you want believe it, if you don't want then try something else. This is why my "belief" argument was placed. And what about the language barrier? When I am in doubt, I am using a professional human translator to translate text from Japanese to English.


(*) The only area of Physics that you don't need experiment/measurements is the Mathematical Physics, but personally I consider it more a branch of Mathematics and not so much a branch of Physics :b

If this was string theory or even aerodynamics, then yes physics is just a tool to model reality. Pulleys/mass and vibrations are easily modeled and pretty much 100% accurate, so your statement holds no clout. You love beating people with facts with your anecdotal evidence. Is there any other facts you can provide except manufacturer claims?

[ichitaka05]

Please keep pulley debate out. I've seen (in this forum AND other forum) page after page of this topic and always always ALWAYS goes ugly... which we don't need. If you wanna go at it, please do it at Engine/Trans sub section of the forum.

[Spuds]

Redacted by mod request.

[stacyu18]

i have done a borla cat back and a hks drop in air filter not a hugh difference but fun to drive and sounds great

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Please keep pulley debate out. I've seen (in this forum AND other forum) page after page of this topic and always always ALWAYS goes ugly... which we don't need. If you wanna go at it, please do it at Engine/Trans sub section of the forum.

I thought that we are in the Engine, Exhaust, Transmission section and the question was related with easy/cheap ways to get more power. Is the pulley discussion a forbidden topic in this forum in general? The concept of a solid pulley in general works and I believe that there should not exist any questions about it. Having doubts is like trying to rediculate teams like the following:

ASM S2k NA at Tsukuba circuit Record Holder:



Prodrive WRX STI at the Isle of Man Record Holder:


Toda Racing has also posted dyno results for our cars (+10hp) and they are mainly a racing engine builder and not an aftermarket parts manufacturer as it was mentioned before.

I wouldn't post all these if I didn't have personal experience, but I prefer to quote the originals instead of posting my own results and measurements.


From my side the discussion is closed. Thanks a lot.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I thought that we are in the Engine, Exhaust, Transmission section and the question was related with easy/cheap ways to get more power. Is the pulley discussion a forbidden topic in this forum in general? The concept of a solid pulley in general works and I believe that there should not exist any questions about it. Having doubts is like trying to rediculate teams like the following:

What I meant was do it on different thread. It's not forbidden topic or anything, but if you wanna go into it, please make a new thread. I can promise you, it'll get pretty ugly... BUT don't take my word for it. Who knows, maybe 86/BRZ owners are more mature and might not go down ugly road.