Increased front negative camber now oversteering what next

[wparsons]

Based on the first post stating he was getting oversteer 100% stock, I think it's pretty conclusive it's how he's driving, not the alignment specs.

[Harey]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Sounds like it is just a little lift off over steer at mid corner out to me. Some maintenance throttle will help settle the car.

Nah I'm definitely well off throttle before mid corner. When I say oversteer I mean that I can feel lower grip in the rear compared to the front, I don't keep pushing till the rear actually kicks out.

As suggested before, I agree that this is because I have no maintenance throttle and the weight of the car is pushed to the front tyres.

My previous awd Subaru was a constant fight to turn in so the no throttle entering the corner really helped (however even in that car I should have added maintenance throttle once turned in).

Can't wait to get back to the track to try this out!

Should I be adding maintenance throttle immediately after braking, or should I be giving a short period of no throttle to help initial turn in?

[NoHaveMSG]

I am not the most experienced or best at explaining things like this. There are a ton of guys in the tracking forum that have more info.

Most of the time I can get back on throttle pretty quick. On heavy braking zones into tight corners I find sometimes I have to let the car roll for a split sec or it will push.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Based on the first post stating he was getting oversteer 100% stock, I think it's pretty conclusive it's how he's driving, not the alignment specs.

Give me a stock car and camber bolts for a few hours and I can make it oversteer for you

[cjd]

Randy Pobst just did a great write up on this. If you're not using the brakes, coast... But that means you're on the accelerator maintaining, maybe a subtle lift or accelerate to fine tune the attitude of the car, till you start unwinding and feeding in throttle.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Harey

Nah I'm definitely well off throttle before mid corner. When I say oversteer I mean that I can feel lower grip in the rear compared to the front, I don't keep pushing till the rear actually kicks out.

That's not oversteer then, at most it's just the car rotating properly.

Originally Posted by Harey

As suggested before, I agree that this is because I have no maintenance throttle and the weight of the car is pushed to the front tyres.

You still want to have maintenance throttle, but it's not as drastic as it originally sounded.

Originally Posted by Harey

My previous awd Subaru was a constant fight to turn in so the no throttle entering the corner really helped (however even in that car I should have added maintenance throttle once turned in).

AWD Subaru's don't like to rotate like they should, so you're just feeling what a proper neutral handling car feels like.

Originally Posted by Harey

Can't wait to get back to the track to try this out!

Originally Posted by Harey

Should I be adding maintenance throttle immediately after braking, or should I be giving a short period of no throttle to help initial turn in?

Back on the throttle as quick as possible. Ideally you should be feeding in steering input as you're backing off the brakes, as soon as you're fully off the brakes you want to balance the car on the throttle.

[Harey]

Have been trying some maintenance throttle on some back roads and wow yup massive improvement! As suggested it moves the weight towards the rear of the car for more rear traction and become balanced. Then its a matter of adjusting throttle/steering to keep traction at both ends. Hurry up next track day!

[Harey]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I am not the most experienced or best at explaining things like this. There are a ton of guys in the tracking forum that have more info.

Most of the time I can get back on throttle pretty quick. On heavy braking zones into tight corners I find sometimes I have to let the car roll for a split sec or it will push.

Thanks, that makes sense. I was noticing that when watching the F1 videos posted earlier in this thread. Period of no throttle when initially turning in, then medium throttle then quickly but smoothly to full throttle.

Corner entry generally want more weight bias to the front, mid corner balanced weight bias and corner exit weight bias to the rear.

[churchx]

Harey: sometimes there are also one may need even opposite, to get rear to rotate mid turn even more, just touch brakes slightly, it will move mass to front/change grip bias at even higher rate. Of course always worth be ready to catch with counter-steer if "more rotation" changed to rears loosing grip and rear stepping out.
Mass transfer is one thing to learn, but there are also many others worth learning. Raceline trajectories, heal & toe throttle blipping on downshifts for revmatching (as it's easy to loose grip with locking rears w/o revmatch on downshit too, especially if mid turn on already side-loaded tires), left foot braking and so on .. twins make wonderful platform to learn car control and provide priceless feel of accomplishment when one starts to manage to do it right

[guybo]

Go karting and practice this technique. The feeling is more immediate in a kart and once you jump in the twin you'll know what it will feel like when you get it right. The first time I jumped in a kart and got it right, a bulb lit up inside my head. Plus if you screw up in a kart you won't end up in a tree.

[johan]

Originally Posted by guybo

Go karting and practice this technique. The feeling is more immediate in a kart and once you jump in the twin you'll know what it will feel like when you get it right. The first time I jumped in a kart and got it right, a bulb lit up inside my head. Plus if you screw up in a kart you won't end up in a tree.

1000% agree. There's a local group of 86ers that've been going karting together every month for over 4 years now.