Increased front negative camber now oversteering what next - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Harey · 04-11-2018, 11:43 AM

Hi All,

I still have all oem suspension except for some camber bolts and increased front camber.

My wheel alignment settings are:
Front Camber -2
Front Toe +0.5
Caster 6 degrees 12 minutes
SAI 17 degrees 18 minutes

Rear Camber -1.3
Rear Toe +1.0

I am running Bridgestone Potenza RE003 tyres (215/45/17) on 33psi.

The turn in is fantastic but the rear struggles to keep up. With my driving style I found it slightly oversteered before I increased front camber and now it oversteers quite a bit. I find the traction/stability control kicking in quite a lot (when driving pretty quick around tight turns).

I tried increasing the front tyre pressure to 36-38psi and while it did stop oversteering, I lost all my beautiful turn in. I have since gone back to 33psi all round and just manage the rear with my driving.

What would be the next thing to balance the car but also make it faster? I track the car 3-4 times a year. Increase rear camber, front sway bar?

Code Monkey · 04-11-2018, 12:00 PM

Is this toe out in the rear? What toe did you run before (front and rear)?

venturaII · 04-11-2018, 12:19 PM

Try dropping rear pressure first. Next steps would be to add a little toe in at the rear, as your number seems a little high (I like to shoot for zero toe in back for a car used on the street and autox/track). Next would be to add a larger swaybar up front, or add adjustable lower control arms at the rear and dial up a bit more rear camber.

strat61caster · 04-11-2018, 12:28 PM

+ is toe in
- is toe out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_(automotive)

venturaII · 04-11-2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strat61caster

+ is toe in
- is toe out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_(automotive)

Correct. My bad. That said, I'd still shoot for zero, and regain rear stability with more camber and/or front stiffness.

why? · 04-11-2018, 01:15 PM

are the tires new? Are the rears worn more than the fronts?

Definitely need more rear camber.

wparsons · 04-11-2018, 02:03 PM

The balance of camber front to rear is actually decent. IMO, it's probably how you're driving that's causing it.

Does it happen if you're off the throttle, or does the rear kick out under power? Are you adding throttle without reducing steering input?

churchx · 04-11-2018, 02:11 PM

It oversteered slightly with stock alignment, and oversteered more with one you posted in OP? I'd rather check how you drive/what driving inputs you do. Alignment seems rather good to me. Of course it's less understeer biased then stock due increased grip from more negative camber in front, but then again that is what usually most of others wished to change in stock alignment. In your place i'd rather work on driving style on track. Have you tried getting some HPDE instructions? What you usually do with steering/brakes/throttle entering curve/mid curve/exiting?
Given your alignment numbers, which look ok, i'd think more on getting driving right, not extra mods/changes to car/suspension/alignment/tires, if even stock aligment was not fitting how you drive.

Barefootdan · 04-11-2018, 02:19 PM

Could you soften up the rear suspension a bit to help with this? Or is that counterintuitive

churchx · 04-11-2018, 02:30 PM

Add more camber, soften rear suspension rates, reduce rear tire pressure, change to softer rollbar or even take it out, increase toe-in, add that MCA anti-squat traction mod, reduce front grip in one of multiple ways .. there are lot of ways to skin a cat (get less oversteer), but question being is that right thing to do and if that is needed at all?

Imho better learn throttle/brakes/steering affects mass transfer/grip and different phases of curve, grip management, learn quick countersteering inputs, and drive-drive-drive more to get theory in reflexes, as nothing beats more seat time. Good instructions reduce learning time and lets make less mistakes to be found/corrected by many repetitions of trying out everything, but one still needs to get all that into reflexes.

ls1ac · 04-11-2018, 02:35 PM

I just thought I might mention one other possibility, sometimes at the track we would adjust the front for more bite and the driver would swear we had ruined the back. When in fact he would be turning in faster lap times. The front improved and the back did not ,but with the higher speeds the back was loose. The seat of the pants are not necessarily the best measuring device.

norcalpb · 04-11-2018, 02:58 PM

20mm front sway bar, and control arms to even out the camber.

Capt Spaulding · 04-11-2018, 04:09 PM

Or, you could reset front camber to 0.

venturaII · 04-11-2018, 04:14 PM

Put 205s on the front...

04-11-2018, 11:43 AM	#1
Harey Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Drives: 2013 Toyota 86 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 70 Thanks: 34 Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Increased front negative camber now oversteering what next Hi All, I still have all oem suspension except for some camber bolts and increased front camber. My wheel alignment settings are: Front Camber -2 Front Toe +0.5 Caster 6 degrees 12 minutes SAI 17 degrees 18 minutes Rear Camber -1.3 Rear Toe +1.0 I am running Bridgestone Potenza RE003 tyres (215/45/17) on 33psi. The turn in is fantastic but the rear struggles to keep up. With my driving style I found it slightly oversteered before I increased front camber and now it oversteers quite a bit. I find the traction/stability control kicking in quite a lot (when driving pretty quick around tight turns). I tried increasing the front tyre pressure to 36-38psi and while it did stop oversteering, I lost all my beautiful turn in. I have since gone back to 33psi all round and just manage the rear with my driving. What would be the next thing to balance the car but also make it faster? I track the car 3-4 times a year. Increase rear camber, front sway bar?

04-11-2018, 12:19 PM	#3
venturaII Only users lose drugs. Join Date: Nov 2014 Drives: All the time Location: Shrewsbury upon Worcestershire Posts: 1,834 Thanks: 888 Thanked 1,078 Times in 681 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Try dropping rear pressure first. Next steps would be to add a little toe in at the rear, as your number seems a little high (I like to shoot for zero toe in back for a car used on the street and autox/track). Next would be to add a larger swaybar up front, or add adjustable lower control arms at the rear and dial up a bit more rear camber. __________________ "To know a thing well, know it's limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen." Amtal Rule

04-11-2018, 04:09 PM	#13
Capt Spaulding Persona Non Grata Join Date: Nov 2015 Drives: '15 BRZ (WRB) Location: On the Border Posts: 1,882 Thanks: 2,016 Thanked 2,782 Times in 1,201 Posts Mentioned: 10 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Or, you could reset front camber to 0. __________________ Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast

04-11-2018, 04:14 PM	#14
venturaII Only users lose drugs. Join Date: Nov 2014 Drives: All the time Location: Shrewsbury upon Worcestershire Posts: 1,834 Thanks: 888 Thanked 1,078 Times in 681 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Put 205s on the front... __________________ "To know a thing well, know it's limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen." Amtal Rule

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Question About Negative Camber: More Negative Camber == More Grip at Corner?	Figo	Suspension \| Chassis \| Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing	38	03-10-2019 02:08 PM
Negative Camber!	victorchav	Wheels \| Tires \| Spacers \| Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack	6	06-08-2016 12:51 PM
Negative front camber?	Estey	Suspension \| Chassis \| Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing	10	01-23-2014 06:33 PM
What are your opinions on negative camber, from a looks perspective?	86-tundra	Wheels \| Tires \| Spacers \| Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack	26	12-26-2013 01:29 PM
Excessive negative camber?	MTeator	Suspension \| Chassis \| Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing	10	06-22-2012 10:30 AM

04-11-2018, 12:00 PM	#2
Code Monkey Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Drives: Subaru BRZ Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 879 Thanks: 985 Thanked 597 Times in 355 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Is this toe out in the rear? What toe did you run before (front and rear)?

04-11-2018, 01:15 PM	#6
why? Only happy when it rains. Join Date: Feb 2013 Drives: series.blue Location: Harnett county NC Posts: 1,995 Thanks: 5,698 Thanked 1,265 Times in 750 Posts Mentioned: 26 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	are the tires new? Are the rears worn more than the fronts? Definitely need more rear camber.

04-11-2018, 02:11 PM	#8
churchx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Drives: 2014 GT86 Location: Latvia, Riga Posts: 4,336 Thanks: 698 Thanked 2,091 Times in 1,437 Posts Mentioned: 53 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	It oversteered slightly with stock alignment, and oversteered more with one you posted in OP? I'd rather check how you drive/what driving inputs you do. Alignment seems rather good to me. Of course it's less understeer biased then stock due increased grip from more negative camber in front, but then again that is what usually most of others wished to change in stock alignment. In your place i'd rather work on driving style on track. Have you tried getting some HPDE instructions? What you usually do with steering/brakes/throttle entering curve/mid curve/exiting? Given your alignment numbers, which look ok, i'd think more on getting driving right, not extra mods/changes to car/suspension/alignment/tires, if even stock aligment was not fitting how you drive.

04-11-2018, 02:19 PM	#9
Barefootdan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Drives: 2017 BRZ Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 177 Thanks: 112 Thanked 130 Times in 67 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Could you soften up the rear suspension a bit to help with this? Or is that counterintuitive

04-11-2018, 02:30 PM	#10
churchx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Drives: 2014 GT86 Location: Latvia, Riga Posts: 4,336 Thanks: 698 Thanked 2,091 Times in 1,437 Posts Mentioned: 53 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Add more camber, soften rear suspension rates, reduce rear tire pressure, change to softer rollbar or even take it out, increase toe-in, add that MCA anti-squat traction mod, reduce front grip in one of multiple ways .. there are lot of ways to skin a cat (get less oversteer), but question being is that right thing to do and if that is needed at all? Imho better learn throttle/brakes/steering affects mass transfer/grip and different phases of curve, grip management, learn quick countersteering inputs, and drive-drive-drive more to get theory in reflexes, as nothing beats more seat time. Good instructions reduce learning time and lets make less mistakes to be found/corrected by many repetitions of trying out everything, but one still needs to get all that into reflexes.

04-11-2018, 02:58 PM	#12
norcalpb Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Drives: 2013 BRZ, 2023 Model 3 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 2,347 Thanks: 1,256 Thanked 904 Times in 591 Posts Mentioned: 15 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	20mm front sway bar, and control arms to even out the camber.

User Name		Remember Me?
Password