Anyone make their own muffler delete / turn-down?

[Ninjin]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

Nonsense? 3 out of 3 he has dyno'd have all lost power. I've tagged him in the post and if he would like to post charts or share his experience then he will.

The only "nonsense" is people arguing with with a dyno. If you run a car with a part vs without the part then you have your answer. If you don't like that answer, fine, but that doesn't change the facts.

Do a search..you won't find any power gains. In fact you find more people saying that it just makes more noise and has lost power if anything. People aren't so anxious to post charts of their car losing power I guess. On the two day session of FA20Club tuning in AZ recently was the last person on the dyno with one that lost power. I'm not sure if he is a member on this forum or not but if anyone was there for the tuning event then maybe they can tag him in this thread...

Again, I'm sick of people arguing that have no evidence otherwise. Maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's ego...either way you're wrong. If the OP just wants to hear his motor a little more on the track, this will help...at a cost of performance. The power lost vs weight saved still isn't worth it in my book. If its worth it to you then by all means, go for it!!

I am the guy who lost power on the dyno that day. I have not posted much about it due to a number of variables involved. Toni from FA20club was not sure about the exact cause of the power loss. I'm going to explain what happened in detail. Please do not make any assumptions about details I may omit, or take what I am trying to say out of context.

I had a baseline dyno pull done three days prior to the tuning weekend, on that day I made an SAE corrected 155.5 whp on the Maha dyno (the Maha is a heartbreaker dyno). For my baseline I had a TRD Intake system, stock headers, stock overpipe, stock front pipe, stock midpipe and a Berk muffler delete with a tune from FA20club. Based on prior records from that performance shop, a MT twin should put down between 145 and 155 whp.

I then put on aftermarket catless headers, aftermarket overpipe, and an aftermarket front pipe with a high flow cat. Nothing else was changed. After tuning the car, Toni delivered the bad news, while I had gained peak hp (157whp), I had lost significant amounts of power everywhere below 7000 rpm. The low end was affected the most, with torque losses between 10-15 ft/lbs. We stopped tuning my car at that point as it wasn't worth our time to continue. The next day the header was discovered to have developed a leak at the flanges. That leak was fixed and I put the stock axleback on. Virtual dyno numbers have been promising, but I have not been back on the dyno yet to confirm the power increase.

So here's the takeaway: On an otherwise stock system, the muffler delete did NOT cause an observable loss of power. On a system with upgraded headers, overpipe and front pipe, the muffler delete may have caused a significant loss of power.

I'll try to get dyno chart overlays and an end to this story when I go back on the dyno soon.

Sent from my GS4.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by Ninjin

I am the guy who lost power on the dyno that day. I have not posted much about it due to a number of variables involved. Toni from FA20club was not sure about the exact cause of the power loss. I'm going to explain what happened in detail. Please do not make any assumptions about details I may omit, or take what I am trying to say out of context.

I had a baseline dyno pull done three days prior to the tuning weekend, on that day I made an SAE corrected 155.5 whp on the Maha dyno (the Maha is a heartbreaker dyno). For my baseline I had a TRD Intake system, stock headers, stock overpipe, stock front pipe, stock midpipe and a Berk muffler delete with a tune from FA20club. Based on prior records from that performance shop, a MT twin should put down between 145 and 155 whp.

I then put on aftermarket catless headers, aftermarket overpipe, and an aftermarket front pipe with a high flow cat. Nothing else was changed. After tuning the car, Toni delivered the bad news, while I had gained peak hp (157whp), I had lost significant amounts of power everywhere below 7000 rpm. The low end was affected the most, with torque losses between 10-15 ft/lbs. We stopped tuning my car at that point as it wasn't worth our time to continue. The next day the header was discovered to have developed a leak at the flanges. That leak was fixed and I put the stock axleback on. Virtual dyno numbers have been promising, but I have not been back on the dyno yet to confirm the power increase.

So here's the takeaway: On an otherwise stock system, the muffler delete did NOT cause an observable loss of power. On a system with upgraded headers, overpipe and front pipe, the muffler delete may have caused a significant loss of power.

I'll try to get dyno chart overlays and an end to this story when I go back on the dyno soon.

Sent from my GS4.

Thank you for posting the true story! Details always seem to get left out by the time the 15th person down the line is informed...

I'd say an exhaust leak at the header would cause a significant decrease in power.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by Ninjin

I am the guy who lost power on the dyno that day. I have not posted much about it due to a number of variables involved. Toni from FA20club was not sure about the exact cause of the power loss. I'm going to explain what happened in detail. Please do not make any assumptions about details I may omit, or take what I am trying to say out of context.

I had a baseline dyno pull done three days prior to the tuning weekend, on that day I made an SAE corrected 155.5 whp on the Maha dyno (the Maha is a heartbreaker dyno). For my baseline I had a TRD Intake system, stock headers, stock overpipe, stock front pipe, stock midpipe and a Berk muffler delete with a tune from FA20club. Based on prior records from that performance shop, a MT twin should put down between 145 and 155 whp.

I then put on aftermarket catless headers, aftermarket overpipe, and an aftermarket front pipe with a high flow cat. Nothing else was changed. After tuning the car, Toni delivered the bad news, while I had gained peak hp (157whp), I had lost significant amounts of power everywhere below 7000 rpm. The low end was affected the most, with torque losses between 10-15 ft/lbs. We stopped tuning my car at that point as it wasn't worth our time to continue. The next day the header was discovered to have developed a leak at the flanges. That leak was fixed and I put the stock axleback on. Virtual dyno numbers have been promising, but I have not been back on the dyno yet to confirm the power increase.

So here's the takeaway: On an otherwise stock system, the muffler delete did NOT cause an observable loss of power. On a system with upgraded headers, overpipe and front pipe, the muffler delete may have caused a significant loss of power.

I'll try to get dyno chart overlays and an end to this story when I go back on the dyno soon.

Sent from my GS4.

Thanks for posting

[smbstyle]

Looks like Circuit Motorsports actually saw a gain of 17whp with drop in filter, muffler delete and tune. They tested that the muffler provided no loss/gain in HP

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46381

I'm sure it would have been a 27whp gain if it wasnt for that pesky muffler delete, right @chadstyle? lol

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

Thank you for posting the true story! Details always seem to get left out by the time the 15th person down the line is informed...

I'd say an exhaust leak at the header would cause a significant decrease in power.

I'm not the 15th person in line, I heard it directly from the person that tuned the car. His opinion was the muffler delete as the culprit as the loss in power was nearly identical to the two cars tuned here in FL.

I'm glad that he posted his results here.

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

Looks like Circuit Motorsports actually saw a gain of 17whp with drop in filter, muffler delete and tune. They tested that the muffler provided no loss/gain in HP

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46381

I'm sure it would have been a 27whp gain if it wasnt for that pesky muffler delete, right @chadstyle? lol

Plenty of tuners have shown a 17hp+ gain with just a tune on a completely stock car. Your link proves nothing. I'm simply sharing FA20Clubs results with three cars he has tuned. I don't know why that's so hard to understand. I personally don't care what exhaust anyone runs on their cars as I have nothing to gain.

[maj75]

The Berk was on the car when it was baselined, a bunch of stuff was installed, the car lost power and the Berk is to blame.

That's got to be the most ridiculous assumption I've heard in awhile.

Please explain how the Berk had an effect on the power output the second time the car was dynoed.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

This is true and I'm not trying to take this discussion there... In theory, the muffler delete makes sense. Unfortunately the actual results haven't been good at all.

FA20Club built a full 3" exhaust for their track car knowing that they were going to install a turbo soon. They strapped the car to the dyno only to see that it lost power. The rest of the car was still stock other than a drop in filter. The full 3" is optimal for turbo setups but the car didn't respond well to it NA.

But see, you already took the discussion there the second you brought up back pressure. The reason the full 3" lost power has almost nothing to do with the delete.

Exhaust gas velocity... What's that?



Edit: Didn't see this response until after I posted... Oh well.

Originally Posted by stefmiesterb

It lost power because the diameter of the entire exhaust was increased, hence increasing the cross sectional area the air flows and decreasing exhaust velocity. An otherwise stock car with a berk/works or muffler delete would not lose as much power as this set up, or any at all.

[vgi]

Here is an interesting read for those considering exhaust mods: www.mikekemper.com/elantra/diyexhaust/

[skyline r34]

I have a muffler delete. I don't care about hp like the v8 holyer than thou people. I just like the sound.

[Jonsey]

Welcome to the forums, however, I am not sure many people have debated this in the last 3 years.