Do any of you road racers or time trial guys use a strut tower bar?

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

There are numerous examples. If you don't like/trust Cusco, check the GT86 CS-V3 car we have here. It has a MASSIVE strut bar:

Looks like it has a large external reservoir mounting bracket that happens to connect the strut towers.

All joking aside, this is when you'd get a strut bar... a 100% complete, purpose built race car. It is literally the last thing you should think about adding to a car.

[surfwaxsmitty]

Originally Posted by zdr93523

Looks like it has a large external reservoir mounting bracket that happens to connect the strut towers.

All joking aside, this is when you'd get a strut bar... a 100% complete, purpose built race car. It is literally the last thing you should think about adding to a car.

Also, it is mounted along/around the entire strut mount

probably a range of changes that compliment this isolated reinforcement as well.

[nikitopo]

Nope, it is one of the most basic mods because it works and it is very simple. Maybe it is not of much use on time trails, but for sure it helps on racing and even on the street (e.g. obstacle avoidance). It basically gives you a quicker steering. A difference of non using a strut bar with using one is measurable and it gives a difference on steering response of about 0.03sec. If you don't understand physics you can say that this is not a measurable difference, but on a car going 60km/h (37mph) it means that the car will start turning half meter (20 inches) earlier which is very measurable!

[nikitopo]

Additionally, you get more instant gripping during breaking instead of waiting the chassis to deform. I think this behaviour is explained better on this video:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r8xW03PVow"]STI flexible tower bar movie - YouTube[/ame]

[Ro_Ja]

One could counterpoint that the TRD Griffon, a purpose-built race car, does not have a strut brace.

[NLSP]

I can understand a lot of people are quick to dismiss the strut bar because of the fact that it doesn't help you be faster. But then there's another crowd that appreciates parts that enhances the driving feel and experience, which I'll dub as "feel" mods. IMO, a strut bar is a "feel" mod, so I'd put it in the same category as a master cylinder brace. I would even add aftermarket steering wheels and shift knobs as other "feel" mods as well. These are the type of items that will not make any significant difference in your lap times, but provides a positive difference in feel. And isn't the "feel" one of the main reasons we bought this car?

In short, whether a strut bar is worth it really depends on the person. But I can assure you, there is a positive difference (with the TRD bar at least; I haven't tried any others).

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Ro_Ja

One could counterpoint that the TRD Griffon, a purpose-built race car, does not have a strut brace.

It has bigger V bars and reinforcements to the strut towers. You can either install a strut tower bar with the existing V bars, or change the V bars to bigger ones.

[chaoskaze]

I don't know much but Maybe for cars that's rigid enough strut bar's effect is just very limited. Obvious it will help on a car that's just wide & has lots flex to it.

But on cars that very rigid front the beginning you just don't need one? Like NSX, Porsches, Ferrari, Lambos.. I don't recall they have a strut bar up front.


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[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

But on cars that very rigid front the beginning you just don't need one? Like NSX, Porsches, Ferrari, Lambos.. I don't recall they have a strut bar up front.

It depends the car. They might have a more complex suspension geometry in front, or the engine on the back . MacPherson struts with all the engine weight in front is not a good combination ...

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It depends the car.

It absolutely does depend on the car. And on this car, it makes very little to no difference. Which is why the people with hundreds of track hours in this specific car are saying not to waste your money on one.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It depends the car. They might have a more complex suspension geometry in front, or the engine on the back . MacPherson struts with all the engine weight in front is not a good combination ...

Complex geometry doesn't change the basic fundamental mounting points. A Porsche is still a strut + lower control arm, and a Ferrari is still a double wishbone.

[Pat]

Everyone, I appreciate your input on this. I feel like I have enough info now from experienced drivers to make an educated decision. Without this thread I didn't have confidence in my decision. Now I do.

[rice_classic]

Failure. The benefit of a strut brace is that it braces the strut.. Sounds obvious I know but if you are on track a lot and have high-grip tires those portions of the body which are held together mainly with glue and spot welds, can come apart. On the 86 I'm not sure how that plays out but I've seen it on lots of racecars.. Subframes tearing, strut tower coming apart at the spot welds etc etc.

So a big beefy bar (with no movable joints) can help steering feel but more important add bracing to a part of the chassis that could be under lots of back/forth stressing.

Fun lesson to remember is that failure is rarely eliminated, it's often simply transferred elsewhere.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Failure. The benefit of a strut brace is that it braces the strut.. Sounds obvious I know but if you are on track a lot and have high-grip tires those portions of the body which are held together mainly with glue and spot welds, can come apart. On the 86 I'm not sure how that plays out but I've seen it on lots of racecars.. Subframes tearing, strut tower coming apart at the spot welds etc etc.

So a big beefy bar (with no movable joints) can help steering feel but more important add bracing to a part of the chassis that could be under lots of back/forth stressing.

Fun lesson to remember is that failure is rarely eliminated, it's often simply transferred elsewhere.

Speaking of transferring points of failure and spot welds coming apart, check this out.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105791

Because of that, if I were to buy a strut bar I would buy one that mounts all the way around the strut using all three bolts, not one that uses the existing strut brace points.