Do any of you road racers or time trial guys use a strut tower bar?

[Pat]

I'm trying to determine if a strut tower bar is actually worth it. I'm not convinced with all of the rave reviews of the products written by people that never really push their cars to their limits, and thought this would be a good place to ask about it.
So, if you have quality, firm, aftermarket suspension and race tires, can you tell a difference when adding a strut tower bar?

[FX86]

at high cornering speeds like on a track..yes

[jasonojordan]

I have the Grimmspeed one. Noticed a difference even in daily use on round about and other tight corners.

[CSG Mike]

The CSG BRZ does not have a strut tower brace of any sort.

[mav1178]

The better question is, what are you trying to do with a strut bar?

If you want to improve steering feel, sure.
If you want better lap times, I have a bridge to sell you.

-alex

[Pat]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The CSG BRZ does not have a strut tower brace of any sort.

Thanks, Mike. Have you tried one on the car, then taken it off? I'd be curious to know your thoughts, if so.
If not, why? You guys seem to do a lot of testing, and it would be very easy and low cost to do so.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by mav1178

The better question is, what are you trying to do with a strut bar?

If you want to improve steering feel, sure.
If you want better lap times, I have a bridge to sell you.

-alex

I've heard claims about lap times, reduced NVH, steering feel, confidence and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. All of those sound good to me. My first wish would be to reduce lap times. But even if it does not, but does provide other benefits, I'd consider using one.

[Icecreamtruk]

Very interested in the answers here, im on the same boat as pat (except my car is still on stock suspension, but wont be for much longer).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

Thanks, Mike. Have you tried one on the car, then taken it off? I'd be curious to know your thoughts, if so.
If not, why? You guys seem to do a lot of testing, and it would be very easy and low cost to do so.

There's no way to quantify a gain with the equipment available.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

There's no way to quantify a gain with the equipment available.

Fair enough. I can appreciate that. But that's not to say there is absolutely no benefit to one. Certainly measuring lap times is most important, but that's not the only reason I enjoy this car. If it improves the car in other areas it is still of interest to me. You don't have any interest in trying one out, even just to see if there is a subjective improvement (feedback or otherwise)?
I realize I'm kind of slipping back into the realm of the other "reviews" I've read on them, but figured people in this forum would be able to provide a more accurate review and be less likely to zOMG somuChbetTR.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

Fair enough. I can appreciate that. But that's not to say there is absolutely no benefit to one. Certainly measuring lap times is most important, but that's not the only reason I enjoy this car. If it improves the car in other areas it is still of interest to me. You don't have any interest in trying one out, even just to see if there is a subjective improvement (feedback or otherwise)?
I realize I'm kind of slipping back into the realm of the other "reviews" I've read on them, but figured people in this forum would be able to provide a more accurate review and be less likely to zOMG somuChbetTR.

We feel most strut braces are "me too" products. In the rare instances we run into products that do substantially change the feel of the car, we make posts.

TIC steering rack bushings are one of them, and Cusco sphericals for the front arms (paired with a spherical top hat) is another.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Pat

I've heard claims about lap times, reduced NVH, steering feel, confidence and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. All of those sound good to me. My first wish would be to reduce lap times. But even if it does not, but does provide other benefits, I'd consider using one.

Hence my post.

If you feel it's an improvement that you can feel, yes a strut bar can be bought.

The measured improvements from lap times, chassis rigidity, etc... those are much, much more difficult to measure.

Do strut bars improve chassis stiffness? Yes. Does that translate to better steering feedback? Generally, yes. Does that mean your driving experience will be better? Unknown.

-alex

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

There's no way to quantify a gain with the equipment available.

Originally Posted by Pat

But that's not to say there is absolutely no benefit to one.

I don't think Mike is saying there's zero benefit.

He's saying there's no way to measure the benefits with equipment available.

Example:
how do you measure chassis stiffness? Do you just jack up one corner of the car and measure how much it deflects? Or do you actually use proper equipment to measure it?

If you want to measure chassis stiffness you'd have to strip a chassis down to bare metal, mount the items you want to test, and have a rig set up to measure deflection based on load(s) you apply to test points.

Things like this make a $100 (or $300) strut bar difficult to quantify gains in. Does a cheap $50 copy of the TRD strut bar work as well as the original? Does a $500 Carbing bar work as well as a cheaper $150 bar? Etc...

-alex

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I don't think Mike is saying there's zero benefit.

He's saying there's no way to measure the benefits with equipment available.

Example:
how do you measure chassis stiffness? Do you just jack up one corner of the car and measure how much it deflects? Or do you actually use proper equipment to measure it?

If you want to measure chassis stiffness you'd have to strip a chassis down to bare metal, mount the items you want to test, and have a rig set up to measure deflection based on load(s) you apply to test points.

Things like this make a $100 (or $300) strut bar difficult to quantify gains in. Does a cheap $50 copy of the TRD strut bar work as well as the original? Does a $500 Carbing bar work as well as a cheaper $150 bar? Etc...

-alex

This.

It would take 500k in equipment to measure a $500 bar. Doesn't make sense.