Forbes Magazine: BRZ = future collectible car

[krayzie]

A collectible classic car is usually a game changer that made an impact to the car industry when it debuted, or a redemption model to regain brand status, or a design / technological breakthrough of its day, or sunset product lifecycle? For example Honda NA1 NSX, BMW E30 M3, Mazda NA Miata, Porsche 993?

I don't think if I were driving a new S13 240SX back in '89 I would be getting as much attention on the streets as now with my BRZ (I do get a lot of people asking me questions at gas stations and parking lots, considering my BRZ isn't a special edition or in some funky colorway, it's can be a game changer because it's refreshing with limited competition on the market today, thus the hype).

To be a future collectible, the car would need some design elements or features that would be sought after.

One can argue the twins could be the last of the old school design sports car (i.e. front engine with low hoodline, manual transmission, relatively lightweight, limited electronic gadgetry, etc), hence future collectibility.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by thill

Average condition 96 ZX turbo (which sold for nearly $40K new) is going for around $9-10K. If you found a low mileage/mint condition (we are talking showroom/perfect) you might fetch high 20's.

That Miata you like to make fun of can actually hold it's value better, especially if it is an NA in good condition, or one the more M models in good condition that had limited production color/amenities production runs.

I think we need to define what collectible means here... If you mean finding a mint condition 20+ year old Japanese sports car.. Then yeah. Those can be hard to find depending on the car, year, and specific amenities. Does not mean that they are worth much though..

yeah that's what I remember it being at in the early 2000's too... so it held it's value. Any correlation is a one way street between collect ability and price...

If it's a higher price or holding its' value, it's because it is collectible, but just because it's collectible doesn't mean it will hold its' value or go up in value.

Jaden

[CatDaddysBBQ]

Originally Posted by BRZ_Lawyer

Thanks for teaching me about terminal value.... No wonder the 2001 mr2 never goes down in price

It's nothing real, just a phrase I made up when talking to a buddy of mine years ago. Thought of it like terminal velocity when falling - every object (car/human/coin) has some speed where it just stops falling faster, and just keeps at a relatively constant speed of fall.

Cars generally depreciate the same way. Most boring cars like a camry or something will just keep going lower and lower but most sports cars have some limit where they just stop a bit higher than "normal" cars. Some make sense, some don't.

Time will tell where the twins stop - the oldest one in existence is only two years old, lol. I just don't see them ever being 3800 dollars, just because it's 12 years old. They won't be silvia/supra/etc valuable on the used market but they'll probably stop around 40-50% of it's original price, which is pretty good in the grand scheme of things.

[Ubersuber]

A collectible car is one that increases in value at some point in its life. It is not a car that increases in value from its original purchase price after allowing for inflation. One never buys a collectible car new and keeps it, by definition that isn't collecting anything. Cars depreciate and then they get scrapped or collected. There's no third class of car.

The BRZ will rarely be purposely scrapped is my prediction.

And don't say every Ferrari is collectible because that ain't so and never has been so. Only some Ferraris become truly collectible, many of them are just dogs.

[themajesticone]

I think Subaru partnered with Forbes to try and boost sales for the BRZ because they aren't getting as many sales as they hoped for. This would be a perfect way to do it.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by thill

Right, because it is an classic American muscle car that appeals to a huge variety of old men with money.

Do you guys ever watch shows like "Chasing Classic Cars". I think we need to define what types and condition of these cars actually sell for real money. A rusted out old car like a 68 Camaro is not going to be a high priced car at auction. A mint condition garaged one, or a fully restored one? Yes. Will go for good money.

Is it possible that a 2013 BRZ with original equipment that is either low miles/mint condition or full restored to mint condition could be considered a collectible in 30-40 years? Possible. But these are economy Japanese sports cars that tend to be driven. I would look at what first generation RX-7's go for today as an example of what you might expect to get for one down the road.

I could see the twins appealing to older people years from now. There are a lot of people interested in the 86 who either can't afford one yet, or are waiting for them to depreciate. Obviously the car won't be on the same level as the 1M or s2000 CR, but I think it will desirable on some level.

I think you would be surprised at how much people are willing to pay for project car Camaros these days. Especially for the more popular SS/RS trims. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4578578239.html

I'm not saying these cars are going to be worth a ton of money in the future, what I'm saying is that I think people 20 years from now will consider the gt86 "classic".

[jack43]

Maybe JDM GT86s with rhd will be imported for collectors paying crazy bread. Or low serial # mint BRZs in WRB.

Those all TRD builds we've seen on the forum could appreciate, especially if you found a TRD SC for it.

[protpibe]

This makes me feel a little bad for stripping it down and raping it with car parts.

Only a little bad though.

[uEih]

Originally Posted by BRZ_Lawyer

I was hoping for discontinue in 2015

Me too actually, I wouldn't mind them only producing the FRS from now on and discontinue the BRZ.

[enjetek]

Originally Posted by Jaden

comparing the FRS to a car like a 240sx or miata is ridiculous. These cars are ugly horrible cars in stock trim.

The twins are beautiful cars with great lines and awesome handling in stock trim.

They don't need crazy body kits to make them desirable.

They don't need crazy mods to make them more than just a DD with good mileage.

You want to compare them to a comparable car (different, but more comparable for the same reasons that made the car what it was) then compare them to the Supra or the 300zx...

Those cars had similar lines and similar performance (in different ways and stock trim).

and similar performance numbers...

Jaden

this is where i have to stop the madness. are you seriously stating that the frs be compared to a supra or 300zx? just remember that many people still do consider the supra to be not only iconic, but even put it into the super car realm of cars. earlier you even stated that the performance of the car (supra) wasnt impressive...do you remember at what time it was made? does that mean you weren't impressed by a rx7 or skyline then also? the only reason the car was stuck at that number was because of the agreement between nissan and toyota, and even the power was reported lower than it was. but guess what happens when you start to open various parts of the car with upgrades? also (not to address you directly), but a stock supra can freaking handle pretty well. go look up what it is capable of number wise. yes, it can feel bloated but it still handles great for a stock car 20 years ago!

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by enjetek

this is where i have to stop the madness. are you seriously stating that the frs be compared to a supra or 300zx? just remember that many people still do consider the supra to be not only iconic, but even put it into the super car realm of cars. earlier you even stated that the performance of the car (supra) wasnt impressive...do you remember at what time it was made? does that mean you weren't impressed by a rx7 or skyline then also? the only reason the car was stuck at that number was because of the agreement between nissan and toyota, and even the power was reported lower than it was. but guess what happens when you start to open various parts of the car with upgrades? also (not to address you directly), but a stock supra can freaking handle pretty well. go look up what it is capable of number wise. yes, it can feel bloated but it still handles great for a stock car 20 years ago!

Stop the madness, I love it... coming from someone with one of the cars I mentioned that is now outdated... although a great car with AWESOME potential...

I don't consider cars that have to have butt tons of nitrous or are running 30 lbs of boost on race fuel to be the potential for a street car.

I consider the potential of a street car, whatever boost and timing they can run on pump gas reliably. So that's where I come from in regards to that.

I absolutely believe they can be compared.

I don't for a second believe that (outside the tuner community) that the reason that supra's and 300zx's are collectible is because they were monster performers for the time (in 99 a camaro ss was running faster than a 98 supra by quite a bit) or because they could be made to be fast.

Supra's and 300zx's were beautiful cars with great lines and were sporty.

That's what made them become collectible.

The same types of things were said about those cars at the time that are being said now about the frs.

That's why it is being lauded as potentially a future collectible.

I'm not even saying that it necessarily compares to those cars performance wise, when you account for the different eras, although it definitely handles better than them.

When you have professional drivers stating that it handles better than anything other than a ferrari 458 italia, that's pretty impressive.

It's that type of thing along with gorgeous lines in stock trim that make a car collectible.

So really the only reason I was bringing up those cars is that I don't believe it's fair to compare a twin to a miata or a 240sx.... It's much more than that, in looks AND performance.

Jaden

[enjetek]

Have you ever been in just a bpu supra? It wouldn't need the butt tons of nitrous or 30 lbs of boost to be what you said. Go find your sources on what a stock supra vs a stock frs can do on a skid pad. After a couple years pass, I think the frs will be like your rsx, integra, civic, 240, miata types of cars just because of depreciation in regards to the crowd of people getting them. Performance wise what are the number of the frs versus the miata or 240?

[iwantafrs]

Yes if the mileage is low and the condition is good. Lets say the S2000, M3, 300zx, Celica, Supra, was ONLY 20k mileage. Is that valuable? Same situation for this car in the future.

@enjetek it wont be like the " rsx, integra, civic, 240, miata" but much more than those forward wheel drive and weak rwd.

[iwantafrs]

Originally Posted by uEih

Me too actually, I wouldn't mind them only producing the FRS from now on and discontinue the BRZ.

I rather discontinue the FRS just like the xB and xA