Safe/reliable amount of Hp range for BRZ

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by ultra

In response to the OP - if you're interested in 'safe and reliable' horsepower then the best bet is to sit back and wait a year or two while the early adopters do all the real world R&D work for you.

There's plenty of variety in terms of forced induction options on the market but based on the threads on this board peoples' real world experiences seem to vary quite a bit. For every 'w00t big whp' thread on these boards it seems that there's a nightmare thread where somebody had installation issues, tuning issues or low whp results with the same kits. No exceptions for any particular vendor's kit it seems.

The key to the successful builds seems to be a matter of carefully chosen supoorting mods and having a very skilled installer *and* tuner on hand locally.

Even then my perspective is that most people are in 'fingers crossed' mode since the installs are all so newly done.

We're far from having a huge wealth of reliability data to look at so IMO, even fiveen the high quality of most of the kits on the market already, the 'install and forget it' type of 'safe and reliable' kit doesn't exist yet.

You need a tuner's mindset, local support and a willingness to accept the possibility of a failure when going FI at this stage.

SPOT ON ! and very sage advice.

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

SPOT ON ! and very sage advice.

but i still believe more failure on the tuning part because im at 400+ and beat the hell out of it with a few thousand miles ! compared to Crawford a few hundred miles and BOOM

[Gen]

Originally Posted by lexusb3

but i still believe more failure on the tuning part because im at 400+ and beat the hell out of it with a few thousand miles ! compared to Crawford a few hundred miles and BOOM

More than one from what I hear. I've also heard that their situation probably isn't a result of a specific deficiency with the OEM engine. Granted, I'm surprised I can manage to find the gas pedal most days, so I know very little about this first hand.

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by Gen

More than one from what I hear. I've also heard that their situation probably isn't a result of a specific deficiency with the OEM engine.

so its has to be the tune lol then again i dont know im just assuming. Ill go read their build now

[Gen]

Originally Posted by lexusb3

so its has to be the tune lol then again i dont know im just assuming. Ill go read their build now

That is consistent with what I have heard and something about rod angles on their built engine or something of the sort I do not understand. Really, I have no specialized knowledge in this arena, so it's all hearsay.

[EL7]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

If this is your DD, I wouldn't recommend going FI for another year and see how people are holding up around the 30k mile mark after FI. It is too early to tell.

^This.

Exactly what I'm doing before I make the leap next year. Seen good reports from one member floggin his Raven on the FA20Club kit so far. 9K miles and counting.

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by EL7

^This.

Exactly what I'm doing before I make the leap next year. Seen good reports from one member floggin his Raven on the FA20Club kit so far. 9K miles and counting.

13.5k miles now lol

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by lexusb3

but i still believe more failure on the tuning part because im at 400+ and beat the hell out of it with a few thousand miles ! compared to Crawford a few hundred miles and BOOM

I do believe Crawford, Accelerated, I , and a few others have taken this engine past your horsepower level and found a weakness. Dynos all don't read the same and measure differently, to me there sole purpose is to see a gain from a baseline, my engine could very possible read 500 on your dyno,...don't know. If you haven't reached the limits on the stock fuel system above and beyond a change to the stock fuel pump in the tank, meaning,... having to go to a surge tank or a rising rate return system to make things safe, like I have,.. I know comparatively I'm making a lot more power than you regardless of horsepower claims, not because of the use of it, but because of the necessity of it.... I don't think this confusion over why some engines go boom and others don't is because of tuner issues,...I think its more of an issue of what guys are claiming for horsepower and the variances from one dyno to another and BHP versus WHP. Yes there are going to be a few bad tunes with resulting damage, but guys like Quirt Crawford, Visconti and Don at AP making rookie tuning mistakes?.....I just don't believe that. I'm believing once you reach 20psi boost,... stronger head studs,...which aren't available, and stronger more compliant aftermarket crank bearings,... which also aren't available, and a very serious look at forged rods and pistons is a must for the FA20...

[Frs300]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

I do believe Crawford, Accelerated, I , and a few others have taken this engine past your horsepower level and found a weakness. Dynos all don't read the same and measure differently, to me there sole purpose is to see a gain from a baseline, my engine could very possible read 500 on your dyno,...don't know. If you haven't reached the limits on the stock fuel system above and beyond a change to the stock fuel pump in the tank, meaning,... having to go to a surge tank or a rising rate return system to make things safe, like I have,.. I know comparatively I'm making a lot more power than you regardless of horsepower claims, not because of the use of it, but because of the necessity of it.... I don't think this confusion over why some engines go boom and others don't is because of tuner issues,...I think its more of an issue of what guys are claiming for horsepower and the variances from one dyno to another and BHP versus WHP. Yes there are going to be a few bad tunes with resulting damage, but guys like Quirt Crawford, Visconti and Don at AP making rookie tuning mistakes?.....I just don't believe that. I'm believing once you reach 20psi boost,... stronger head studs,...which aren't available, and stronger more compliant aftermarket crank bearings,... which also aren't available, and a very serious look at forged rods and pistons is a must for the FA20...

you can get head studs

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

I do believe Crawford, Accelerated, I , and a few others have taken this engine past your horsepower level and found a weakness. Dynos all don't read the same and measure differently, to me there sole purpose is to see a gain from a baseline, my engine could very possible read 500 on your dyno,...don't know. If you haven't reached the limits on the stock fuel system above and beyond a change to the stock fuel pump in the tank, meaning,... having to go to a surge tank or a rising rate return system to make things safe, like I have,.. I know comparatively I'm making a lot more power than you regardless of horsepower claims, not because of the use of it, but because of the necessity of it.... I don't think this confusion over why some engines go boom and others don't is because of tuner issues,...I think its more of an issue of what guys are claiming for horsepower and the variances from one dyno to another and BHP versus WHP. Yes there are going to be a few bad tunes with resulting damage, but guys like Quirt Crawford, Visconti and Don at AP making rookie tuning mistakes?.....I just don't believe that. I'm believing once you reach 20psi boost,... stronger head studs,...which aren't available, and stronger more compliant aftermarket crank bearings,... which also aren't available, and a very serious look at forged rods and pistons is a must for the FA20...

you've seen the logs people have posted from visconti's e-tunes, right? i wouldn't just have blind faith that because someone is well known they can do no wrong. and whether you need fuel upgrades has to do with a lot more than just power level, especially with this hybrid DI-port system.

for example some tuners utilize the DI heavily and can run e85 on stock injectors. others require upgraded pump and injectors to accomplish the same thing, leaning more on the port injection. it's not just 'i think i need more fuel capacity so i must make more power'.

[EL7]

Originally Posted by lexusb3

13.5k miles now lol

Hahaha, yup. Sorry lexusb3, I couldn't recall your handle at the time but yours is the ride I was referring to.

I like how you are open about really stress testing the kit and generally drive the car with a less than zero f*cks attitude. I've been following FBM and FA20Club kits so far and the more I read about FA20Club and the service and performance their kit puts down the more I'm leaning towards their setup.

I wish I could find a couple other FI members who are detailing their driving habits and the reliability of their kits. If anyone can point me to some more build threads like @King Tut and @Sportsguy83 I'd appreciate it. I'd really like to find a large variety of kits and custom builds to follow.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by EL7

^This.

Exactly what I'm doing before I make the leap next year. Seen good reports from one member floggin his Raven on the FA20Club kit so far. 9K miles and counting.

My engine has over 20,000 miles on it now and about 12,000 miles of that has been forced induction.

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by EL7

Hahaha, yup. Sorry lexusb3, I couldn't recall your handle at the time but yours is the ride I was referring to.

I like how you are open about really stress testing the kit and generally drive the car with a less than zero f*cks attitude. I've been following FBM and FA20Club kits so far and the more I read about FA20Club and the service and performance their kit puts down the more I'm leaning towards their setup.

I wish I could find a couple other FI members who are detailing their driving habits and the reliability of their kits. If anyone can point me to some more build threads like @King Tut and @Sportsguy83 I'd appreciate it. I'd really like to find a large variety of kits and custom builds to follow.

Thanks to me that's the point to let people have the info !!! I have the balls the money and access to a local tuner 15 minutes away and E85 5 minutes away I just felt like the perfect canidate to do what I'm doing so of course ill share every minute

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by jamesm

you've seen the logs people have posted from visconti's e-tunes, right? i wouldn't just have blind faith that because someone is well known they can do no wrong. and whether you need fuel upgrades has to do with a lot more than just power level, especially with this hybrid DI-port system.

for example some tuners utilize the DI heavily and can run e85 on stock injectors. others require upgraded pump and injectors to accomplish the same thing, leaning more on the port injection. it's not just 'i think i need more fuel capacity so i must make more power'.

Guess you haven't been there done that yet then. Doesn't matter DI or Port or any combination of the two,...eventually this 165whp engine is going to need more fuel volume once you double or tripled the fuel systems design limits...come on! It has all to do with power level when we are talking BIG power. And that big power level for this engine rides around 20 psi with E85. No blind faith here, just the acknowledgement of the fact that they have been at the forefront of these engines FI, have done the most test and tuning of them, do this for a living, and are not backyard tuning Bozo's.