100% DI Failure with Nurburgring rentals

[track_warrior]

For everyone that says ring rental cars live a harsh life, just look at the reliability of this suzuki swift:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/12/i...ng-rental-car/

[thill]

Originally Posted by ayau

There should be a graph that shows the speeds relative RPMs somewhere, but I can't seem to find it.

This post might give you an idea though.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...65&postcount=2

Thanks:

Gear Ratio MPH per 1Krpm Max Speed Per Gear
1 ........ 3.63 ..... 4.8 ............ 36 mph (7400)
2 ....... 2.19 ...... 7.9 ............. 58 mph (7400)
3 ....... 1.54 ...... 11.3 ............ 84 mph (7400)
4 ....... 1.21 ....... 14.3 ...........106 mph (7400)
5 ....... 1.00 ..... 17.3 ............128 mph (7400)
6 ....... 0.77 ..... 22.6 ...........139 mph (6150

If that South Africa article is accurate (and I am reading it right) it seems pretty unlikely you will cause damage until you upshift from 3-4, 4-5, 5-6 and you bounce from the 7000K+ rpm range to the 5000K+ rpm range on the upshift (which you can't do from 1-2, and 2-3). Seems pretty unlikely on the street (unless you are okay with breaking laws), but definitely doable on the track if you are pushing the car hard for a lengthy period of time (to generate enough heat). And if you fall into that group of owner it sounds like a tune is pretty much essential??? This really needs to get addressed by Toyota/Subaru, but if the above is close to being accurate, we are talking about a very small minority of people (like the Nurburbring rent a racer company). This would also explain why just a handful of people out of most likely 70K plus owners have reported this.

That said this car was envisioned as a track car and has been marketed and sold as such, so it 100% is unacceptable and needs to get fixed. If you plan on tracking the car, you should probably be cautious when redlining and upshifting in the scenario outlined in the South African document to avoid damaging the injectors and ultimately the engine.

Anyone know if there is software/guages available to monitor the DI's so they don't meet or exceed 150 degrees Celsius?

[ayau]

@thill, found the graph. Just had to change my search parameters.

This graph shows that the engine falls at or above 5800 from 3-4, 4-5, 5-6.

[thill]

Originally Posted by ayau

@thill, found the graph. Just had to change my search parameters.

This graph shows that the engine falls at or above 5800 from 3-4, 4-5, 5-6.

Awesome, thanks for posting that.

[Sigh-on-Rice]

Originally Posted by thill

If that South Africa article is accurate (and I am reading it right) it seems pretty unlikely you will cause damage until you upshift from 3-4, 4-5, 5-6 and you bounce from the 7000K+ rpm range to the 5000K+ rpm range on the upshift (which you can't do from 1-2, and 2-3).

In addition to this, I believe it said the shifting needs to be done in 0.6 secs or less.

[SuperDave]

does flashing/retuning the ecu void the warranty?

[thill]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

does flashing/retuning the ecu void the warranty?

It can, but I think it is pretty rare that a warranty would be declined for a tune. Slapping on turbos and super chargers is another story...

[Gixxersixxerman]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

2) I think this is a Manual Transmission issue. I know this shouldn't have anything to do with it but to date I have only read about MT cars being affected (if I'm wrong someone please correct me). Are the ratios on the AT keeping this exact condition from occurring? Is there a moment of "free reving" occurring with some drivers because they're still in the throttle for a fraction of a second longer when the clutch is depressed and it's backfiring when the throttle is released? Are these problems related to "power shifting"?

Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but when the auto shifts, we don't lift off the throttle, now being that it's "drive by wire" I don't know if the throttle plate is closing, or timing or ignition is cut or reduced or anything.. Most autos have something to reduce power for the shifts, in my old 93 ford probe GT we inturupted the IAT sensor and that gave us full power during shift causing the tires to chirp or spin, but was hell on the trans, after thousands and thousands of miles with a trans cooler I still wore mine out and swaped in a 5 speed.. But maybe because we don't lift during shifts we won't have that problem, which mean that only times like say a autoX where we go from full throttle, off and then back on above the 5k limit would we see a problem??

[cf6mech]

For the chicken little crowd, had my DI,s pulled when my engine was pulled due to a crank bearing failure, I'm at 20psi of boost on e85 and found the limit of the OEM bearings,....the DI seals are fine....completely intact and working as advertised with zero blowby,......now the bearings,thats another story. Don't expect to go big with boost without a bearing upgrade. Those that have, you got a few months till they say bye,bye. I have a manual tranny.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

For the chicken little crowd, had my DI,s pulled when my engine was pulled due to a crank bearing failure, I'm at 20psi of boost on e85 and found the limit of the OEM bearings,....the DI seals are fine....completely intact and working as advertised with zero blowby,......now the bearings,thats another story. Don't expect to go big with boost without a bearing upgrade. Those that have, you got a few months till they say bye,bye.

That doesn't mean much at all. You could hold the engine at 7000rpm at full throttle for a week and it wouldn't damage the seals.

[NickFRS]

my car just hit 18k miles and everything is hunky dory. 1 year n 1 month old.

[DanoFA20]

ECU tunes will void the warrantee, thats for damn sure. they would deff say your tune ruined the engine if thats what youre in for, engine problems. if i was to get a tune id make sure i had a way to flash it back to stock if any engine issues arise for you.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by thill

It can, but I think it is pretty rare that a warranty would be declined for a tune. Slapping on turbos and super chargers is another story...

They can and will void your warranty with a tune. Rightfully so, considering the parameters and limiters that can be modified with a tune.

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

They can and will void your warranty with a tune. Rightfully so, considering the parameters and limiters that can be modified with a tune.

People are always saying this but have no basis..I take my car to the dealer all the time for work and I have 4 maps, 2 of which are E85, and have flashed my ECU countless times. The dealer can't "see" that when they're servicing the car!! They would have to dissect every line of code to find where there is a difference and honestly people, do you think dealers are sitting there analyzing every ECU that comes in?

If you're paranoid, flash back to stock before service. They will "see" and event if they start digging but an event could also be a simple dealer flash done previously or by another dealership.

That said, stick with a reputable tuner like FA20Club and you're good. If you're still scared, sell the car!! It's not for you.