LED interior light upgrade causes computer failure

[DarrenDriven]

This was sent to me by Rick in Spokane ( @Oliverrick ) via email.

I'm being told that I caused the computer to get screwed up in our BRZ Limited. It's a $500+ from the dealer and if I found it cheaper they would not honor the warranty. Here's what the manager of the service department says:

When I put LED's in the BRZ Limited door courtesy lights and the over head courtesy light it blew out the computer that controls that circuit. He said the mechanic that was tracking down the problem called the Subaru Tech line and they told him that the reason the computer went out was because of the LED's and that they have 5 cases of this same thing that happen to them.

Now here is how it went down. I bought my LED's from F&A Automotive some time ago and put them in myself and they were working great. The over head has the 9 LED board. Then on April 30th I took it in to Parker Toyota to have the windows tinted. (that's where Parker Subaru sent us) Parked it in the garage as soon as I got home with it because the next morning I was returning back to Coeur D'Alene Idaho to have the OEM Sub-woofer, the OEM Subaru footwell illuminate LED Kit (blue) and the Rydeen DUO mini backup camera installed. (have the 16 pin that Dave sells on the club site too). After returning home I parked the car, again, in the garage.

At about 9:30pm Theresa and I went out to see what the footwell lights looked like. Well first off the lights are VERY dull. No brightness. Then we also discovered that they don't come on by the doors opening. No, they only come on when you turn the parking lights on as well as the headlights. Didn't think that was cool since they don't say anything about this UNTIL the checklist at the VERY last sentence on the directions. I looked and so did Theresa and we found no where else that they said anything about it only came on with the headlight switch and then their on the whole time your going down the highway. Not cool.

Anyway when we turned everything off we stood and watched to see if the lights inside the car went off when the doors were closed. They did but as we were walking away I saw a light coming from the passenger side door courtesy light so we opened the passenger door and the light went duller (less bright) and if I closed the door it made the light come on brighter. (maybe the normal brightness that it would have when it's working normal open)

I took and put the driver side door courtesy light in the passenger side but it did not change so I disconnected the overhead courtesy light and still nothing so then I put the OEM bulbs back in all three and it still does it. So I called the manager of service and told him and he said they would check and disconnect everything they did and see if that changed anything.

He had me bring it back this last Thursday morning. When they were done is when he said it was my fault the computer went out when I installed the LED's. My first question to him is why didn't it happen right away and he said the Tech that the mechanic talked to at Subaru said they don't know why this has happen to just 5 BRZ but their sure it's the LED's! Really?

This is where you come in. With all the people involved in the club I'm sure some of them ARE Techs for Subaru as well as Toyota and the FT86 car. Since you have been a member for a while I thought maybe you could contact them and see what they know about this. I'm thinking something must of happen when they put the window tint on. They have to have the windows open all the way with the doors open at the same time and we all know they are down about a inch when the door is open and when closed the window goes up that inch so how do they put the window tint on with the window down an inch? I'm sure they don't get in the car and close the door. They must know a way to do it so the radio does not lose its memory because I remember saying to myself on the way home that the radio didn't loose it's channels. It did the next day they put the Sub-Woofer,backup camera and the footwell LED's in. Hummmm.

So my question is how do they do the tinting without disconnecting the battery? I think this might be where the problem came from. I'd love to see if the courtesy lights start working right as soon as the computer is plugged in and that they had to do ANYTHING else to fix the problem. Have you heard of this happening to ANYONE else on this earth on ANY of the BRZ's or the FR-S's or any other of the models that have the same light system? Please check this out because if this is the truth then we need to warn EVERYONE in the clubs that they too will be libel for the $500+ computer that the problem takes out. This is not good for any of us.

[DarrenDriven]

@milhouse, does this pertain to you? @xxscaxx ?

[xxscaxx]

Thats what had happen to me, yes. Installed LED lights in the courtesy spot, the light would not shut off even when the door was closed. The BIU needed to be replaced.

Not sure why it did this, but I have LEDs in there now and have since that happened and haven't had any issues.

I really advise anyone replacing these bulbs to remove the battery power first before swapping them out. With the door obviously having to be open, you have to take the bulbs out while that line is live. Not sure if it short circuited because of that, but its the only logical thing I could think of.

As far as installing window tints, not sure if other installers do this but mine backed off the bolt from the sensor in the door, which makes the window go back up (like the door is shut). when he needed to lower it, he simply just tightened the bolt back down and it functioned as normal.

Obviously if the LEDs worked fine before they touched anything, its something THEY did. Maybe they did as my installer did and loosened that bolt allowing the window to roll up, and maybe they possibly short circuited it.

[wrohdejr]

If you shorted out the circuit when installing the led's then you fried the lighting BIU. I did this to mine within 2 months of ownership. Subaru replaced mine for free. The pain in the ass part is when they install the new BIU they have to reprogram everything and the key fob and it takes about 5 hours to do this.

[ucsmfu]

Originally Posted by xxscaxx

Thats what had happen to me, yes. Installed LED lights in the courtesy spot, the light would not shut off even when the door was closed. The BIU needed to be replaced.

Not sure why it did this, but I have LEDs in there now and have since that happened and haven't had any issues.

I really advise anyone replacing these bulbs to remove the battery power first before swapping them out. With the door obviously having to be open, you have to take the bulbs out while that line is live. Not sure if it short circuited because of that, but its the only logical thing I could think of.

As far as installing window tints, not sure if other installers do this but mine backed off the bolt from the sensor in the door, which makes the window go back up (like the door is shut). when he needed to lower it, he simply just tightened the bolt back down and it functioned as normal.

Obviously if the LEDs worked fine before they touched anything, its something THEY did. Maybe they did as my installer did and loosened that bolt allowing the window to roll up, and maybe they possibly short circuited it.

after replacing the BIU, so you replaced the courtesy lights with LEDs, did you unplug the battery first ?

Leds work fine afterwards ?

[ucsmfu]

Originally Posted by wrohdejr

If you shorted out the circuit when installing the led's then you fried the lighting BIU. I did this to mine within 2 months of ownership. Subaru replaced mine for free. The pain in the ass part is when they install the new BIU they have to reprogram everything and the key fob and it takes about 5 hours to do this.

did you replace the courtesy door lights with led after getting the BIU replaced ?

thanks

[xxscaxx]

@ucsmfu - when I got the new BIU I actually replaced it exactly the same way. I didn't unplug the battery lol...but I recommend to. I actually wanted to see if it would do it again, since it was covered under warranty for me.

LED's work fine now, have been for over a year.

[ucsmfu]

Originally Posted by xxscaxx

@ucsmfu - when I got the new BIU I actually replaced it exactly the same way. I didn't unplug the battery lol...but I recommend to. I actually wanted to see if it would do it again, since it was covered under warranty for me.

LED's work fine now, have been for over a year.

haha, nice, I wouldn't definitely remove the battery 2nd time around. BIU such a hassle. I am afraid if I swap for leds same thing will happen again :/

[Poodles]

Said this in the other thread, but I'll say it again.


If the OEM is stupid enough to not use a fuse on a circuit that could potentially short out and damage an expensive component, it's all on them. It's what they're there for.


There's always a possibility of water getting into the door (that's why they have weep holes at the bottom) and shorting it out. Just seems like a terrible oversight IMHO.

[stugray]

There was a whole thread a couple of months ago where the OP posted a statement from SOA that putting LEDs in the circuit can cause a BIU failure because the current is less than the expected current.

I called BS because that means that a bulb burning out will also cause a BIU failure due to the current being less than expected.....

My guess is that most of these BIU/ECU failures being related to LED installations is operator error during installation coupled with a poorly designed bulb socket. (prone to shorts during insertion/removal).

[mabviper]

I deal with micros at work and IMO, if you're playing w/ LEDs, you need to make sure that it has at least a resistor to control the current. Connecting power supply -> LED -> computer is not advisable. There's a huge potential of current surges that will go straight to the computer.

The problem that I see with most LED dome lights is that they connect LEDs in series and parallel. Since each LED drops voltage anywhere from 1.5v to 4v (LED dependant), they need to stack them to be compatible with 12v. Even then, you still don't have control of the current running through them. That's why all high power LEDs have a current controlled driver.

[xxscaxx]

Originally Posted by stugray

My guess is that most of these BIU/ECU failures being related to LED installations is operator error during installation coupled with a poorly designed bulb socket. (prone to shorts during insertion/removal).

In all honesty...how do you mess up a bulb install? Pull bulb out, put new one in..

I did the exact same thing the second time around that I did on the first. I also installed the passenger side the first time around with no issue. For me at least, it was definitely NOT install error. Not sure wtf happened.

[Husker BRZ]

Originally Posted by xxscaxx

In all honesty...how do you mess up a bulb install? Pull bulb out, put new one in..

I did the exact same thing the second time around that I did on the first. I also installed the passenger side the first time around with no issue. For me at least, it was definitely NOT install error. Not sure wtf happened.

It's because if you use something conductive like say a screwdriver to get the bulb out and hit part of the housing somehow it fries it. I installed LEDs successfully the first time as well but had this happen to a friend. I'd recommend not using anything to remove the light besides your finger or unplugging whatever housing you are replacing lights in so no power is going to it.
These two threads talk about the same thing happening to others:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63592
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60355

[xxscaxx]

Originally Posted by Husker BRZ

It's because if you use something conductive like say a screwdriver to get the bulb out and hit part of the housing somehow it fries it. I installed LEDs successfully the first time as well but had this happen to a friend. I'd recommend not using anything to remove the light besides your finger or unplugging whatever housing you are replacing lights in so no power is going to it.
These two threads talk about the same thing happening to others:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63592
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60355

In order to basically change the bulb out you have to disconnect the harness plug from the light, which will kill power to it. So even if you used a screwdriver it wouldn't matter, but these bulbs are easily removable with your finger, so if your using something to pry them out I don't know what to tell ya