DI Failure Issue

[Taber]

So, I've been reading a number of threads on this, and I'm somewhat confused:

1)Is it the injectors that fail, or is it actually a seal that fails?

2)Are people just replacing the seal and remedying the problem?

3)If its just a seal replacement, is it an oem revised seal?

[topazsparrow]

we DON'T need another thread on this.

Read the existing threads, all the info is there (with multiple pictures). This post only further reduces the likely hood that the search feature will find relevant information.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Taber

So, I've been reading a number of threads on this, and I'm somewhat confused:

1)Is it the injectors that fail, or is it actually a seal that fails?

2)Are people just replacing the seal and remedying the problem?

3)If its just a seal replacement, is it an oem revised seal?

See post #147.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=40951&page=7

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Taber

So, I've been reading a number of threads on this, and I'm somewhat confused:

1)Is it the injectors that fail, or is it actually a seal that fails?

2)Are people just replacing the seal and remedying the problem?

3)If its just a seal replacement, is it an oem revised seal?

1. Bad factory tune causes the seal to fail, which ultimately causes the injector to fail.

2. it's a bandaid.

3. no

[CSG Mike]

By Stu of gt86ownersclub.co.uk

There's so much misinformation and paranoia floating around about this issue. The American forum has gone banzai about it without truly understanding the problem. I appreciate dealerships there are just as bad as here though with a) acknowledging a problem, b) understanding it and c) fixing it successfully (without taking your car on a 200+ mile jolly).

The issue is transient det damaging the seals. It's not when you lift the throttle the problem occurs, it's when you go back on it quickly. This is called "tip-in". When you rapidly change the throttle angle, you need "tip-in fuel" and "tip-in spark". Because sensors (and the ecu) takes a few milliseconds to react to these changes, you have to put in predictive tables which ensure the engine gets the right amount of fuel and spark during those big-change transient conditions.

Now our engines, with calibrations 700, and A00 DO have transient spark tables, however for some reason (which we will never understand/find out), the transient spark table was disabled above 5200rpm. This means that if you change gear rapidly above this engine speed you are able to 'get ahead' of the ECU and get a little crack of tip-in det/knock. This isn't usually dangerous, but it appears the seals used on the direct injectors (of which I am confident are perfectly up to the job) do not appreciate the det and over time wear and cause a leak and eventually total seal/injector failure requiring replacement.

The fix in calibration A01 is to move the upper bound remit of the transient spark table from 5200 rpm to 10000rpm (e.g. always) and the actual table itself has been populated with some meaningful spark angles so it does its job up top now its actually activated.

Here's a copy of the stock 700/A00 transient spark table, as you can see it's not doing any retarding over 4000rpm:



Here's a copy (leeched from ft86club) of the Toyota docs on the issue:

[ayau]

Sounds like @CSG Mike mashes the gas pedal very quickly after an upshift

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ayau

Sounds like @CSG Mike mashes the gas pedal very quickly after an upshift

Sad part, is that it doesn't even have to be a mash... just enough to put a decent load...

[Doborder]

The question is how do you get this fixed by Subaru or Toyota dealership?

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by Doborder

The question is how do you get this fixed by Subaru or Toyota dealership?

You don't. They have not acknowledged that this is a real issue... i.e no TSB

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Doborder

The question is how do you get this fixed by Subaru or Toyota dealership?

You can't.... yet. Unless you live overseas in an area where Toyota has released an updated ECU flash that specifically addresses this.

[Taber]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

By Stu of gt86ownersclub.co.uk

Awesome information. Thank you so much.

[Doborder]

Will running 100 octane at the track help? M
Decrease chance of detonation?

[thill]

So if I get this straight if you are above 5200rpm and do a fairly aggressive up-shift (say from 1st to 2nd) and step on the gas, you could cause the injectors to fail?

[ayau]

Originally Posted by thill

So if I get this straight if you are above 5200rpm and do a fairly aggressive up-shift (say from 1st to 2nd) and step on the gas, you could cause the injectors to fail?

According to the article, 0.6s or less to upshift may cause damage to the seals.