Why Scion FR-S Sales Have Plunged

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Until I see multiple saying "yes absolutely" I will continue to call bullshit.

I've got one salesman saying 'of course, we would love to' and an engineering manager saying 'I want'. Do I really have to explain that that isn't confirmation?

Those people are in front of the press making statements because they are good at not getting themselves in trouble, I will gladly concede when I see a true confirmation.

They've been in the press multiple times. At least one from Subaru, one from Scion, and one from Toyota. I think actually more than one from Toyota... I'm too lazy to go hunting them down right now, but I've read the articles and have even seen them posted on this very site various times over the past 2 years.

The last one was a Scion rep answering questions from the public on Jalopnik.

It's obvious to anyone paying attention the car isn't going to just disappear a year from now. There will be at least one minor refresh.

The bit I posted about the possible future version having a different engine, YES, THAT is a possibility and won't necessarily happen, but there WILL be an update. You guys can disbelieve all you want, but there is literally NOTHING suggesting the platform is going to get axed anytime soon.

[airjonny]

I think it would serve Scion pretty well to keep the FRS as their default halo for as long as possible. But if they don't replace it, they might as well kill the Scion brand altogether. The Tc can't do it alone and their other models don't seem to be competitive (IQ is discontinued).

[Error]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Not this shit again.

[Error]

If they ever make an Initial D sequel with this car as the main characters ride, prepare to see the takumi tax reborn on the GT86/FRS/BRZ as it did to the AE86.

[xuimod]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Honestly, in order to appeal to the mass market I think Toyota should have made a convertible version. Go after the very large segment of Miata and S2000 buyers who bought them simply because it's a sporty roadster. The people who don't care how the car performs on the track, but just want something that is small, looks good, and has a roof that folds down. They won't complain about power because.. well, they're the sort of people who would buy a Miata or S2000. And nobody expects a convertible to have a ton of room in the back seats.

A great example of this consumer is my boss's wife, who loves the way the Toyobaru looks but wants a convertible. I think there are plenty of people like this out there, and Toyota could score some decent sales by appeasing them.

(I do NOT think more power is the answer to greater sales)

If Toyota made the Twins into a convertible, I'm almost sure they would have had to make the car a strict 2 seater rather than a 2+2. So some practicality is lost. Despite what people say those 2 tiny seats in the back increase the practicality of the vehicle significantly (storing stuff back there, putting kids back there for short trips, when folded down, it increase storage space greatly).

[FirestormFRS]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Here is your chance to enlighten me. How much did it cost to develop and produce the FT86 line?

The accountants are the only ones that know that.

The car has sold maybe 150k units globally. Given a 10% profit margin the car may have recouped $330-$400 million.

Example of extreme development costs: $6 billion for the Ford Contour/Modena line. I'm sure this car didn't cost near that, but $500-$750 million is probably in the ballpark.

[Wise]

I don't vcare if they never make a second generation.

That'll just make the 2012 86 in my garage more a cool talking point in 20 years when my grown up son's friends are asking me about it.

[Tcoat]

[torqdork]

Until I read it in an internal Toyota doc or Toyota Newsroom, it didn't happen.

Sure, lots of speculation from adsense supported sites that quote so-called Toyota insiders but if those do reference a reliable, verified source the quote is usually so convoluted that only a fanboi would rely on it as set-in-stone fact.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by jamies31

The one thing I love about the scion brand is......YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR CAR AND UPGRADE IT YOURSELF, That's what I love about this brand instead of getting tired of the car and trading it in add a modification! you just saved 25-30k and still have the car you love....

Not sure I understand your comment. What car CAN'T you do this to? I have a catalog over an inch thick from one vendor with mods for my Suburban.

[xuimod]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Said it a hundred times already but here I go again!
If they are going to "let it die" it was already in the business plan. The same as if they keep it around.
This is not a "normal" production car that they will try to save or let go based on sales. They planned the life span of these cars before the first one ever hit the road and it would take massive shifts in numbers (either up or down) to make them change that plan.

You can say it a million times, doesn't make it true.

Like any smart business, Toyota reacts to market environments. I think Toyota went in thinking "if car sells really well then we will...." and "if the has mediocre sales then we will....".

In other words, if consumers bought up the Twins enthusiastically then the Twins would probably be around for 15-20 years like the Miata.

But if consumers reacted in a lukewarm fashion to the Twins (like we are seeing now), Toyota will likely dial back plans for the Twin (ie no Supercharged or Turbo versions) or even decide to kill it.

My guess is we might see an update and Toyota will then let the FR-S die (maybe the BRZ will stick around, that might be Subaru's call).

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by torqdork

Until I read it in an internal Toyota doc or Toyota Newsroom, it didn't happen.

Sure, lots of speculation from adsense supported sites that quote so-called Toyota insiders but if those do reference a reliable, verified source the quote is usually so convoluted that only a fanboi would rely on it as set-in-stone fact.

This, this, this, this and this!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by xuimod

You can say it a million times, doesn't make it true.

Like any smart business, Toyota reacts to market environments. I think Toyota went in thinking "if car sells really well then we will...." and "if the has mediocre sales then we will....".

In other words, if consumers bought up the Twins enthusiastically then the Twins would probably be around for 15-20 years like the Miata.

But if consumers reacted in a lukewarm fashion to the Twins (like we are seeing now), Toyota will likely dial back plans for the Twin (ie no Supercharged or Turbo versions) or even decide to kill it.

My guess is we might see an update and Toyota will then let the FR-S die (maybe the BRZ will stick around, that might be Subaru's call).

Like the automotive business it takes years to react to the market! The plan was set a long time ago and like I said very clearly it would take massive numbers one way or the other to change that plan.
I have no idea which way they are going and didn't say I did.
Your "guess" is pure speculation (unless of course your credentials include a high enough position with one of the involved companies).
My statement of "it is planned already" is made through over 30 years in the auto industry and is not a "guess" at either direction they may take!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

They've been in the press multiple times. At least one from Subaru, one from Scion, and one from Toyota. I think actually more than one from Toyota... I'm too lazy to go hunting them down right now, but I've read the articles and have even seen them posted on this very site various times over the past 2 years.

The last one was a Scion rep answering questions from the public on Jalopnik.

That guy is also a salesman, not a decision maker for Toyota corporate and he was not definitive either (and if it's the one I remember his knowledge is laughable, check out the FRS on Leno's car show on youtube, I hate the phrase but I cringed hard watching him flounder to promote his own product effectively). I spend an unhealthy amount on here too and I have yet to see confirmation, feel free to link all 3+ of your sources, I bet I read them too. I'm not saying it will be dead next year, to the contrary I think they'll be shipping them over for at least 2 more years and wouldn't be surprised if we're seeing FR-S arriving on our shores through 2018, a true second generation however is rumors at best.