FLKC in high gears (e.g track). What is acceptable?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Tor

From the things you list, the thermostat may well be the more effective of the things with regards to knock as the coolant is probably the main factor in keeping the internal engine temperature down.

But what are the disadvantages?

None I can think of really. I may have to try this as well.

Thread on thermostats: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9599

[Wayno]

Originally Posted by Tor

But what are the disadvantages?

Aftermarket quality is generally garbage compared to OEM, so you risk wasting a bunch of money, time and energy swapping it out, then back again when it becomes stuck open, stuck closed or otherwise doesn't work as advertised.

I wouldn't take the word of the likes of Cosworth. Any minimal tuning they do is only to enable them to market and sell hardware.

[solidONE]

This company sells a 180*f thermostat for the 86. Are they any better than Mishimoto? Maybe?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIJx-ks2wN0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIJx-ks2wN0[/ame]

Edit: There are actually quite a bit of bad reviews saying it gets stuck open.

here is one https://www.gmforum.com/general-gm-c...mostat-269434/

[driggity]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Is this a place to suggest a lower temp thermostat? Cosworth have always claimed this is worth a couple of degrees worth of timing advance as engine will run a little cooler.

Under sustained loads like you see on a track does a lower temp thermostat actually drop coolant temps enough to matter? I'd think that after a few laps any advantage from opening the thermostat sooner would be gone because you're dumped enough heat into the system that the cooling capability of the radiator is your biggest limitation. But I haven't actually seen data on it.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by driggity

Under sustained loads like you see on a track does a lower temp thermostat actually drop coolant temps enough to matter? I'd think that after a few laps any advantage from opening the thermostat sooner would be gone because you're dumped enough heat into the system that the cooling capability of the radiator is your biggest limitation. But I haven't actually seen data on it.

Theoretically the cooler 'stat will bring the equilibrium down a few degrees assuming you haven't exceeded the capacity of your cooling system. But, I've not tried it either.

[Tor]

This is what it looks like now:

3rd and 4th gear:


Lots of other pulls in there (3 logs):
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-227-0-60...zoom=8064-8405

It pulls some timing here and there, but nothing major. I probably lose some power (at least in lower gears) by running this rich up top and to the increased TCPC which I extended down in the low rpm with -1 deg.

But I think I am happy with this and I suppose this will hold up on track as well, there is no real noticeable performance difference either. In fact, in 4th it feels better if it's not placebo, but I swear I could feel it pulling timing before.

[solidONE]

I'm curious about your oil cooler setup and how its mounted. It seems like your IAT's are not effected negatively at all.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I'm curious about your oil cooler setup and how its mounted. It seems like your IAT's are not effected negatively at all.

Just "standard", like the Perrin cooler mounted in the middle of the intake on two aluminium blocks to the lower plastic guard. It's 13 rows.

Here from my thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=32

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Tor

Just "standard", like the Perrin cooler mounted in the middle of the intake on two aluminium blocks to the lower plastic guard. It's 13 rows.

Here from my thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=32

I'm just assuming the IAT don't go much higher than ambient temps since they are pretty low in that log. I'm not sure which is the ambient temp toggle or if you are even logging it.

I guess that the good part living in cooler climates vs hotter. Cars can make a bit more power.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I'm just assuming the IAT don't go much higher than ambient temps since they are pretty low in that log. I'm not sure which is the ambient temp toggle or if you are even logging it.

I guess that the good part living in cooler climates vs hotter. Cars can make a bit more power.

Ambient was around 25 degs. I try to keep the car moving to keep the IAT down. And if I come to a stop I drive at a bit higher rpm afterwards to bring it down again.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Tor

Ambient was around 25 degs. I try to keep the car moving to keep the IAT down. And if I come to a stop I drive at a bit higher rpm afterwards to bring it down again.

25? If Ambient was that high how is your IAT only 20 at the last little pull? I"m sure you dont mean 25*F.

http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-227-0-60...ark=9712-14210

[Tor]

Originally Posted by solidONE

25? If Ambient was that high how is your IAT only 20 at the last little pull? I"m sure you dont mean 25*F.

http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-227-0-60...ark=9712-14210

Oh, yes sorry got the logs mixed up (there are 3 logs in that link). Log0001_1 and Log0001_2 was the drive to work in the afternoon at around 25 C. Log0002 above was the drive home at midnight, probably it was around 18 C.

[solidONE]

Here is a data log I took while driving in the Glendora mountains after a fresh re-flash. AC on full blast for the log. fairly new 0w-30 Castrol oil and kinda warm weather. Sans additional oil cooling.

http://datazap.me/u/solidone/z7-kc2a...data=1-4-12-13

If you look at the oil temp relative to the coolant temp. Coolant temp equilibrium with the stock t-stat is 195~200*f. Coolant does not go much higher than 200*f while oil was climbing toward 260*f. This supports the assumption that a cooler thermostat may have a positive effect on knock resistance. If the equilibrium was at 185~195*f one would assume that all components cooled by coolant will also drop in temps relative to the stock numbers under the same conditions. Only problem is finding a reliable aftermarket t-stat...

[Tor]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Here is a data log I took while driving in the Glendora mountains after a fresh re-flash. AC on full blast for the log. fairly new 0w-30 Castrol oil and kinda warm weather. Sans additional oil cooling.

http://datazap.me/u/solidone/z7-kc2a...data=1-4-12-13

If you look at the oil temp relative to the coolant temp. Coolant temp equilibrium with the stock t-stat is 195~200*f. Coolant does not go much higher than 200*f while oil was climbing toward 260*f. This supports the assumption that a cooler thermostat may have a positive effect on knock resistance. If the equilibrium was at 185~195*f one would assume that all components cooled by coolant will also drop in temps relative to the stock numbers under the same conditions. Only problem is finding a reliable aftermarket t-stat...

I tried gooling a bit around. Next question is if running a lower temp thermostat would increase friction on the cylinder walls? I think it's probably pretty complicated all together.

If you do go ahead and do this, it would be very interesting to see your results!