Why Scion FR-S Sales Have Plunged

[Celadrielas]

Originally Posted by Atticus808

i'll be buying new so i just hope they still take orders at that time.
been wanting this car since it came out, but i just bought a house and am getting married in November.
After that, i'll be buying!

doubt there will be a new $30 000 car like this for awhile

GRATZ On the wedding! I am getting married 10/29, myself.

[Celadrielas]

Originally Posted by beatgenie

If they sold it as a barebones for 18-22k, I think sales would be much, much better.

Just to be fair... their Target price for thie vehicle was originally that exact range. 18-22,000. Did they make it? No. Does this cause issues with the mass market and affordability? Yes.

My final price for the vehicle was $21,151. If it'd have been over 22500, I'd have walked away from the Fr-S

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Koa

hate us cause they ain't us

Hahaha that was a hilarious movie.

[Veloist]

Originally Posted by gzpermadi

I believe Toyota already predicted this. 86 is just a symbol car that they put in big poster in dealers so the majority of buyer will feel sporty when coming there to buy the Corolla. Brand association.

Right on...this is exactly what they planned. They make so much more money off of the Camry & Corolla & other bland cars that they pretty much used the funds of the 86 development as big marketing move that benefits enthusiasts. If people think Toyota is "losing" money they obviously don't know how rich & powerful they are.

[airjonny]

This car makes so much sense at the 18-22k range. I would totally buy that new and pour 3k in mods down the road.

[tahdizzle]

[NOHOME]

Since I am on track to keep the car of r10 years, I would like for the product line to continue for at least 5 more years.

As the car leaves the warranty period and into the "middle age" of cardom, its nice to have things like engines and gearboxes listed in the used car part media. Especially since the entire drivetrain is specific to the model.

[strat61caster]

I'm just going to quote myself from 2+ years ago and point out that it has exceeded my expectations, very soon there will be more Toyobaru's on our shores than S2000's and we have several years left of production (at least 2, as many as 4) even with no refreshes:

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I think it is priced too high, stock for stock there are faster options. I think it's worth it, as do most people here. I think it'll sell like the RX8, it'll be the hot thing for a year or two but will fade, there's no denying it's a niche market, the interest will fade once people get their fill. Every other dealer has their flagship sports cars just sitting on the lots (Mustangs, Miatas, GTI's etc.) collecting dust.

The thing I'm most worried about is long term how they keep the car "fresh" which in this day and age means bloat, guess it'll just make the first generation more valuable in the long run.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

For us, no, you must have missed my second sentence. The bottom line is you can get more performance for the money, these things are not going to be the new Mustang that's on every corner. On paper it's basically a Miata coupe with an extra grand tacked onto the sticker.

Mark my words, in less than a year they'll be stagnating on dealer lots like every other sports car.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I will be very surprised if the FRS/BRZ sells significantly more than the RX8 did, on paper (performance numbers, daily utility, official reviews) they're very similar, market conditions are similar, target demo is similar, price point is... comparable (RX8 was a bit more upmarket for the time, similar to 370Z now I believe).

Maybe I'm wrong and it will be as ubiquitous as the Mustang, but I'd bet on RX8-like production numbers throughout it's lifetime (and a similar lifespan).

[UtahSleeper]

Originally Posted by beatgenie

I can't really agree with that. To be honest I never knew the difference between a FWD and a RWD until I bought the FR-S. I feel as though I fall under the "average joe" category more so than the "handling enthusiast".

IMO, the reason sales are plunging is because this car is almost 30k+ for most people, and if you're trying to target the youth niche--most don't have 30k+ to spend on a car.

If they sold it as a barebones for 18-22k, I think sales would be much, much better.

While I agree that they would hit a better market in the low 20's, 25k isn't 30k for the scion people. 25k seems reasonable for the car, just wont get many kids cause the tC and xD's are cheaper.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by UtahSleeper

While I agree that they would hit a better market in the low 20's, 25k isn't 30k for the scion people. 25k seems reasonable for the car, just wont get many kids cause the tC and xD's are cheaper.

You're lucky, the first year it was extremely difficult to get out the door under $29k in my area, I'd say less than 20% managed it with the majority going for well north of $30k and some even reaching $40k territory.

If anything is dissuading new car buyers it's the fucking dealerships.

[extrashaky]

The general consensus here seems to be that this is normal for any car.

That's not entirely accurate.

This is normal for any product.



That is the "product life cycle" that marketing majors have to memorize to get a masters degree. Most products will follow this general trend. Cars are no different.

That curve isn't always quite that shape. If a product comes along that everyone needs, and there's no way to improve upon it or compete with it, that curve will be longer and may not go into decline for a long time. Some products also may see a steeper growth. The twins appear to have done that, but that's really because the "introduction" period was before the car even went on sale. Scion had really already sold those cars to those first-month buyers; they just didn't know it yet.

Some products are designed to go through these stages and then be phased out when they're no longer providing the targeted return. You see fast food places do that. Wendy's likes to introduce a special burger or chicken sandwich that they already know they'll take off the menu in three months when the sales die down. McDonald's likes to play with the product life cycle phenomenon with McRib by bringing it back, letting it go through the cycle, then taking it away.

But some manufacturers want to avoid the decline. Sometimes you can't do that with a product that doesn't change. Manufacturers will offer new versions or options. Some will completely redesign and relaunch. This is what car companies do, and this is their goal:



That revival tail basically picks up where the decline is happening and (hopefully) starts the product life cycle over again. For most cars, auto makers plan for this. This is what they're doing with their refreshes and redesigns.

Toyota/Subaru have tried to extend the maturity period with all the special editions. Now they're in decline, which is absolutely normal and expected by any marketing major who actually showed up to class, which admittedly isn't all of them. They may try to revive the product with a redesign and start the cycle over. They may just leave it as it is and enjoy profits on a long tail on the decline side. They also have to consider its indirect benefits in an overall sales strategy among a fleet of different models.

But just because the product is following a known and expected pattern does not spell doom for the car. It doesn't indicate that the product is a failure, nor that Toyota or Subaru have failed to get exactly what they wanted out of it. It doesn't mean we will or will not see a second generation. It just means what it means, that sales are doing exactly what you would expect them to do.

[Rampage]

Toyota will likely keep the line alive for 6 years even with declining sales (which was predictable as most here have mentioned). Look at their most recent sports and sporty car models for evidence. I am sure that with the initial success of the twins they have long since surpassed the break even point on the R&D on the car so everything since then is profit. The majority of drivers today are more concerned with gadgets, gizmos, big power and comfort. The twins buck all those trends so there is not going to be mass appeal for them. Most buyers will think the twins are overpriced for what you are getting because of the lack of gadgets, gizmos, big power and comfort. Hell. many of the post on this forum show that a lot of FT86 buyers agree with them. It takes a special breed to appreciate these cars for what they do offer that other vehicles do not. Unfortunately, for the longevity of true sports cars, the number of those type of drivers is very limited.

[UtahSleeper]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You're lucky, the first year it was extremely difficult to get out the door under $29k in my area, I'd say less than 20% managed it with the majority going for well north of $30k and some even reaching $40k territory.

If anything is dissuading new car buyers it's the fucking dealerships.

Well, buying first release, you expect to pay big, just like with computer hardware and most tech things. Founders fees lol.

If you are like some of us, we waited. Plus, I don't count dealer fee's and such, cause those are on any car. I got my car for 22k, used with 684 miles. I got the price point I thought the car should have been at.

I hope the let the FR-S ride off into the sunset and maybe try a new RWD platform, where the reuse alot of toyota tech and try and make the car cheaper. Some things may suffer, but if they make a reasonable RWD car, the aftermarket will be all over it, especially if it's in the tC price range.

[beatgenie]

Originally Posted by UtahSleeper

While I agree that they would hit a better market in the low 20's, 25k isn't 30k for the scion people. 25k seems reasonable for the car, just wont get many kids cause the tC and xD's are cheaper.

The average OTD price here in Orlando (around Fall, last year when I was car shopping) was 29-30k. I'm pretty sure it varies depending on your location but I was speaking on behalf of the people in my area. That's a little high for MAJORITY of their target crowd. In fact, when I was purchasing the car, my salesman told me that more than half of the people I see driving TC's around originally walked into the dealer for an FR-S but drove off in a TC because of the price point.

The demand for the FR-S is there, but people just can't afford it.

Just to clarify, I'm not complaining about the price. I love the car and I feel as though it's worth every penny.