OFT vs. Ecutek

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Malt

Give it a year and I'll bet another pretty penny that OFT will suit the needs of that other 10% as well.

I surely hope so, but being in the software dev business i can assure you there's a whooooooole lotta work to be done to make it as flexible as RaceRom. Sure you may see SD and Boost Cut come into play, but I doubt you'll be able to define your own routines any time soon. It's really easy to accommodate one use case, it's extremely difficult to create a tool that allows any user to accommodate any use case.

Now please prove me wrong .

[1stGenBRZ86]

Maybe speed density is not needed at the moment on this platform, but it for sure will be after all the "kit based" turbo hype is over. The only true way to make power on most efi imports is by eliminating the maf and using map and iat. Its relevant to custom kit builders because they are more than likely not looking for an off the shelf base map.

Btw, dont take this as a rant for one company or another. I am all for competition because it will bring the best options for the end user.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by 1stGenBRZ86

Maybe speed density is not needed at the moment on this platform, but it for sure will be after all the "kit based" turbo hype is over. The only true way to make power on most efi imports is by eliminating the maf and using map and iat. Its relevant to custom kit builders because they are more than likely not looking for an off the shelf base map.

Btw, dont take this as a rant for one company or another. I am all for competition because it will bring the best options for the end user.

There's a thread in this very section discussing this with a differing opinion than yours. Could you explain why you think speed density is a requirement for turbo applications?

EDIT: I can't find that thread right now. I suspect it fell victim to a moderator delete during the great ecutek/visconti flame fest of '13.

[xDanger_208x]

Thanks op for asking the question I had rattling around in my head ;-)
Does the OFT offer flat foot shifting and launch control?
If so... I just might be a very near future customer.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by xDanger_208x

Thanks op for asking the question I had rattling around in my head ;-)
Does the OFT offer flat foot shifting and launch control?
If so... I just might be a very near future customer.

Yes and yes

[xDanger_208x]

Originally Posted by Malt

Yes and yes

Is it easily adjustable?

[Malt]

Originally Posted by xDanger_208x

Is it easily adjustable?

Launch control adjustment requires you to modify a single field on the bin file, which is fairly easy. This current map release is on dev format which is not adjustable but the maps will be released in bin format once they are out of beta. Shiv noted that all future beta releases will follow this format so there will be a short delay period where the new maps will not be adjustable.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by xDanger_208x

Is it easily adjustable?

Yes, you can adjust it in the user tuning software (RomRaider):

[1stGenBRZ86]

Originally Posted by Malt

There's a thread in this very section discussing this with a differing opinion than yours. Could you explain why you think speed density is a requirement for turbo applications?

EDIT: I can't find that thread right now. I suspect it fell victim to a moderator delete during the great ecutek/visconti flame fest of '13.

Because in an na to turbo conversion, you will most likely want blow through for driveability. This presents the problem of having the sensor prematurely failing from too much boost (usually over 15 psi). I know many nissan guys that have to deal with this (mafs physically blowing off or randomly failing). On the other hand, pull through setups (like factory turbo cars) generally lead to cars stalling out. I suppose a good tuner can fix these issues, but speed density becomes easier with big boost, especially for end users.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by 1stGenBRZ86

Because in an na to turbo conversion, you will most likely want blow through for driveability. This presents the problem of having the sensor prematurely failing from too much boost (usually over 15 psi). I know many nissan guys that have to deal with this (mafs physically blowing off or randomly failing). On the other hand, pull through setups (like factory turbo cars) generally lead to cars stalling out. I suppose a good tuner can fix these issues, but speed density becomes easier with big boost, especially for end users.

I really wish the thread that shiv participated in wasn't deleted because he put it way more eloquently than I can but his assertion was that MAF works just fine for boosted applications, it's just that tuners are used to tuning with MAP so that's what they do.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by 1stGenBRZ86

Because in an na to turbo conversion, you will most likely want blow through for driveability. This presents the problem of having the sensor prematurely failing from too much boost (usually over 15 psi). I know many nissan guys that have to deal with this (mafs physically blowing off or randomly failing). On the other hand, pull through setups (like factory turbo cars) generally lead to cars stalling out. I suppose a good tuner can fix these issues, but speed density becomes easier with big boost, especially for end users.

Almost every OEM turbo car (GTR, Porsche, Mazda, Subaru, Toyota, etc,.) uses a draw through MAF configuration. Compared to Speed Density approach, MAF just does the best job at actually measuring airflow. Most aftermarket "tuner" turbo kits suggest SD conversion because this allow them to simplify hardware and dump blow-off valve discharge to the atmosphere instead of re-routing it back to the intake tract (post MAF). Running a draw-through MAF configuration with BOV dumped to atmosphere will cause all sorts of drivability issues (stalling, partial throttle lumpiness, etc,.) But that is more a reflection of the turbo system hardware, not the tuning side of things. My suggestion is to have a turbo kit that is designed properly and then pick the best tuning approach from that point onwards. Not pick a turbo kit that isn't fully resolved and then pick the only tuning approach that has any chance of making it work well.

My 2c,
Shiv

[jamesm]

you will run out of maf around 350ish whp, or atleast the cars i've tuned ran out around there (one actually a bit lower). so, if you're on pump gas you probably won't need it. if you're running a larger turbo or e85, you will. the alternative is to install a larger maf housing, but that may not work well depending on your hardware configuration, and won't get you around the load limit anyway (which may matter at that level). so theoretically you could keep installing larger maf tubes until you hit 4g/rev, then you're done.

i generally prefer to run a hybrid setup, with maf on the low end and sd up top. it's the best-of-both-worlds way to go, imho.

[JuniorAWD]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i generally prefer to run a hybrid setup, with maf on the low end and sd up top. it's the best-of-both-worlds way to go, imho.

Exactly what I do with my flex/e85/Big turbo cars. Cars drive great, and can deliver power until you max out the fuel system, engine, trans ect.


IMO OFT is basically free software that comes with a tablet, " no lab-top needed" but you are paying for free software, because you have to buy the tablet from them... Why not just use the free stuff on your existing labtop?
You can buy the ECUTEK end user Cable/License and do the same thing, but have software that has been evolving for 2yrs and comes backed by guys who have pioneered the tuning side of the FA platform for just as long. That alone makes it worth while.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by JuniorAWD

Exactly what I do with my flex/e85/Big turbo cars. Cars drive great, and can deliver power until you max out the fuel system, engine, trans ect.


IMO OFT is basically free software that comes with a tablet, " no lab-top needed" but you are paying for free software, because you have to buy the tablet from them... Why not just use the free stuff on your existing labtop?
You can buy the ECUTEK end user Cable/License and do the same thing, but have software that has been evolving for 2yrs and comes backed by guys who have pioneered the tuning side of the FA platform for just as long. That alone makes it worth while.

As an tuner yourself, you should talk with customers who have owned both tuning options and get a better handle on what most people find valuable, necessary and unimportant. As tuners, many of us tend to put excessive value in things that most people either don't care about or will never benefit from (SD conversion for instance). Likewise, we also tend to devalue things that many typical customers truly appreciate on a day to day basis (handheld convenience, not having to muck with comm ports or software licenses, stability, diagnostic simplicity, free tunes, a large open community and the ability to resell without losing $$ etc,.). At the end of the day, everyone has different priorities. And it's probably not a good idea to project one's own needs to that of others/your customers. After 15yrs of being in the tuning business, I finally learned this lesson. Just recently, in fact