Why Scion FR-S Sales Have Plunged

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by paulca

Boxer allows for a much lower center of gravity which allows more freedom in the suspension set up, lower driving position, etc. etc.

I have to agree with NOHOME on this one.
This flat-4 sounds exactly like it's named - I remember early comments about it sounding like a tractor.

Coming from just a humble 1zz-fe (albeit with a slightly better exhaust on the Celica than on the Corolla it was shared with), I was amazed how uninspiring the stock exhaust note was.

Which is why I promptly went and got a new exhaust and filter/intake.
I am one of those who hopes the next gen will utilize a Toyota engine instead of a Subaru engine...

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by SlowButFun

I've never (well, okay, once) experienced the kinds of ad hominem attacks I've been subjected to for stating something about a vehicle - citing articles from level headed reviewers like Karesh & Dykes that support my contentions by the way - on any other forum.

I honestly believe some here, such as Lone Wolf, just can't accept that the Toybaru was over-hyped to the point of inevitably disappointing many, that it's not powerful enough to hang with many cars costing about the same price (or less), and that it doesn't even garner a recommended rating from Consumer Reports due to poor reliability.

I owned an FR-S. I took a bath on it when I traded it I for a vehicle that didn't cost significantly more despite being many levels better in terms of performance, power and even refinement and utility.

The reason I weighed in on why sales of the Twins are tumbling is because it puzzles me that Toyota & Subaru won't do the one, easy, inexpensive thing that the Twins ABSOLUTELY SHOUT OUT FOR, and would probably double their sales: Add 40 to 50 horsepower & approximately 40 lbs feet of torque.

The one really bad move was sourcing the boxer motor from Subaru. It's not as if Toyota doesn't have way more technical expertise designing & building engines vs Subaru.

I think you chose the wrong car for your needs (as someone else pointed out).

You chose a contrarian viewpoint via TTAC, which as Quentin has noted, is pretty much among the small minority who didn't like the Toyobaru (I also suspect they did this simply as a contrarian clickbait strategy). Hidden behind the inflammatory headlines though, even Derek Kreindler ended up typing a few small lines about how they actually do like the cars (I think there was one article that he put out about how his view of the 86 changed over time).
Baruth managed to rank the Genesis Coupe over the 86 - that alone should tell you how much weight to give the review (given that the GenCoupe, which I do like and appreciate for resuscitating the RWD import sport coupe scene, has been lambasted for poor shift-feel, too much weight, and overall less-than-stellar driving experience).
Karesh and Dykes are great, but as noted, they seem to focus on different aspects of the picture than what an enthusiast would (i.e. reliability, ease of daily use and practicality, etc)

Mind you, a lot of criticism is fair - the 86 was massively-hyped, and there was virtually no way for any car to meet those expectations.

That being said, it isn't like Toyota/Subaru lied to you - the spec sheet has always said 200hp, so it isn't reasonable to expect the same performance as a car with 300hp. But if you found something good for what you want from a car, that's great. They never said anything about turbos or AWD (if anything, they quashed these ideas from day one).

The rest of us are enjoying this one fine - and I think where you start to come off a bit irritating is when you keep coming back to tell us about all the things wrong with the car. It gets old. Rather, tell us about what is good about the Mustang (surely the car has more merits to it than simply as a foil to the 86, which was designed for a different mission).

There are other members on this board who don't own 86s, and yet still manage to get along (even if they don't think the 86 is the BEST CAR IN THE WORLD).

My 0.02

[G-awesome]

when the majority of non-car enthusiast folks keep asking what car we have or don't even recognize it at all...then you know it's not going to sell well.

[Marx]

Originally Posted by UtahSleeper

This was built for the people that loved the AE86, which was a gutless wonder econo box.

In 1985 you could buy a Corolla GT-S or a Mustang GT for roughly the same price, ~$9298 for the Corolla vs ~$9885 for the Mustang. The carbureted V8 in the foxbody was good for 210hp, while the hachi's 4AGE was only worth 112 in North America. The Corolla had a significant weight advantage though, sitting at about 2200 pounds where the Mustang was 3100. Also, the Mustang rolled around on big fat 225/60R15s while the Corolla was on skinny little (def not Prius) tires, 185/60R14s.

30 years and shit hasn't changed, except I guess Korea didn't have a horse in this race yet.

[UtahSleeper]

Originally Posted by Marx

30 years and shit hasn't changed, except I guess Korea didn't have a horse in this race yet.

And I am glad for this lol. The Corolla then was a bare bones car with less garbage on it. The FR-S is the closest thing we have to that today.

It is alot easier and more straightforward to add more power to a car then it is to lighten it and improve handling. If people weren't afraid of the FA20 blowing up I think there would be less talk of more power cause people would be more willing to just do it.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by paulca

Boxer allows for a much lower center of gravity which allows more freedom in the suspension set up, lower driving position, etc. etc.

Best thing about the flat 4 is that it leaves a ton of room for a LSx if you decide that you want to do something about the perceived lack of power.

As to the center of gravity thing? How much difference do you think it REALLY makes as compared to a L4 of the same displacement? I figure an inch or so compared to a LSX engine. I don't see Miata flying off the road or failing to negotiate a corner. Besides, any benefits from a lower CG would only be noted when you are driving at the very limits of the cars performance envelope" 95% of these cars will never experience a G force that the passenger would comment on.

[Simisimi]

Originally Posted by Defuser

Good article. The comments section is more of the same, "needs more power" crap. I still wonder exactly who drives over 80-90 mph on a regular basis (track peeps aside). I log over 500 miles per week, and never see anyone doing 100 mph, or blasting off when the light turns green, hitting 60mph in under 4 seconds.

I will leave the massive horsepower numbers to the same guys comparing penis lengths in the locker room, whilst I am lifting weights (nohomo) and people with deep pockets and questionable priorities.

I guess you can call me a niche buyer.

Post written with potato, apologies in advance!

Well I gotta say, I enjoy going from 0-35 at red lights in about 2 seconds and as far as I can tell it's totally legal. My BRZ with Turbo (9psi AVO) is so much fun I wake up happy to drive to work. Hell I had to put snow tires on it here in NH because I just couldn't bear to have my toy taken away just when the cold and dark and snow makes life here seem ridiculous. If they do cancel them I have half a mind to buy another and just store it unmolested until I blow this one up.

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by SlowButFun

Okay.

I probably would have kept the FR-S if if it had a Toyota 4 cylinder motor producing more than 240 horsepower/210lbs feet of torque.

It's as simple as that.

I should have started with that & ended with that, because that really was 95% of the problem with the car FOR ME (and I suspect strongly other past, current & potential owners who feel like I do after driving it).

That's totally understandable. I could've gotten a Focus RS or a Mustang or even a used S2000, but I liked the feel and the drive of the FR-S enough that the 200 hp wasn't a dealbreaker for me. It will be for a lot of people though.

The neat thing is we live in a world where you can buy what you want and I can buy what I want

However, in that world people will always try to tease people for liking what they do

[Simisimi]

Originally Posted by SlowButFun

Okay.

I probably would have kept the FR-S if if it had a Toyota 4 cylinder motor producing more than 240 horsepower/210lbs feet of torque.

It's as simple as that.

I should have started with that & ended with that, because that really was 95% of the problem with the car FOR ME (and I suspect strongly other past, current & potential owners who feel like I do after driving it).

We've all heard this before. DO something about it! You can have a ridiculously fast car that handles better than cars costing 4x the money by investing in more power. $10K to 12K gets you well over 300HP with the tires to make you smile. It's a platform. A canvas to create from. But you need to be in a position to void your warranty. Gotta pay to play. And the play with this car is pretty reasonable vs. other options. Oh, and I can stick my kids in the back to cheer for me as we zoom onto the Interstate and kill mustangs at red lights. Mind you I am very clear that we are not breaking laws. Boost in a BRZ/FRS is like ice cream on apple pie. It's not required but sure is better.

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Besides, any benefits from a lower CG would only be noted when you are driving at the very limits of the cars performance envelope" 95% of these cars will never experience a G force that the passenger would comment on.

Ironically that is the very intention of these cars. You could argue that you're buying the car for the wrong reasons if you aren't doing this.

If you want a comfortable ride with an engine that puts out more power I can name plenty of cars ~$25,000.00 I'd take over the twins.

[donoman]

Some like blondes, some like brunettes. Some like them thick and some like them thin. We can all agree on which is hotter, but not everybody has what it takes to maintain that Italian redhead.

Also, marrying a girl who loves quilting, baking and eating and then "tuning" her to work out, look hot, and start mountain biking is probably not the smartest thing to do.

It would almost be like tuning your 200HP Scion to make 300HP. Her knees weren't meant for the abuse.

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by donoman

Some like blondes, some like brunettes. Some like them thick and some like them thin. We can all agree on which is hotter, but not everybody has what it takes to maintain that Italian redhead.

Also, marrying a girl who loves quilting, baking and eating and then "tuning" her to work out, look hot, and start mountain biking is probably not the smartest thing to do.

It would almost be like tuning your 200HP Scion to make 300HP. Her knees weren't meant for the abuse.

I don't think this analogy works very well. People and machines work very differently. Unlike people, machines have no emotions and feelings to consider. They can work however you want them to work.

I understand what you were trying to say though. Operating a machine at other than design spec comes with risk. Many people have done it, and many people have had problems. Some will raise hell about it, and some will enjoy the challenge and the reward.

I like to build PCs and the fanboyism and 50/50 "it didn't work for me so it won't work for anyone" comments abound, just like on this forum. It's just cheaper to get into. However, if you're smart and know what you're doing you can easily get performance gains with some work and getting to know your components. The FR-S is similar. It's a great platform to build off of.

Is it a platform to build a mustang off of? No, of course not. But to be honest, I bought this car for looks and driving feel first and foremost. I'd rather learn how to make this car fast because I enjoy it, than have a fast car I don't enjoy.

I'm not saying your opinions or car choice are invalid or incorrect, but I'm saying most human choices are based off of what they like, personally.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

People and machines work very differently. Unlike people, machines have no emotions and feelings to consider.
.

Dude, you haven't met my wife!

[Zanwald]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Dude, you haven't met my wife!

I love you Tcoat.