Scion Drops the ball...

[KAuss]

Originally Posted by gte

Not really ... I'm all about aftermarket, but I'm not going to fix the body and the engine, it's going to be one or the other.

I know Toyota is going after the tuner market, because they made it a Scion and they said the ECU will not use proprietary protocols like Toyota's in the past ... it'd be great if this was this decades Civic, I just don't have the time to spend on redoing the whole car, I might as well not buy it if I go into it thinking I'm going to have to do that. If this were my only sports car then maybe, but it isn't. Like I said earlier, if it looked nice like the v2/v3 I could stomach it being underpowered.

Toyota put steak on the menu, and it served pit beef. If they had started with pit beef all along, it might not be such a let down.

So with all due respect, do you do engine mods without doing the suspension? If you do, then you're really doing it all wrong, if you don't why can't you also do the body? Because aero does serve a purpose also...

There is no telling, maybe one day someone will release a kit to resemble the MKII... That might solve all your problem... Your steak comment is a bit hard to swallow... (yeah I went there LOL) Because that's like saying they put a stock photo of a rib eye up, and the finished product looks different... That IMO is to be expected every time...

The car is still very much the essence of what they presented in concept form, but even I can tell the concept form is WAY too radical to ever make it into production... If you come to expect anything to look like concept, or food products to look like stock photos, then it's really on your expectation that you should blame... The old phrase taking things with a grain of salt is of great help here...

IMO, if you can't see that there is potential to fix all of the issues you've named, then there is no discussion... You're basically just going off on a rant there is nothing anyone here can do for you... I once again understand the frustration, but you have to start listening... There are a lot of nonsense in this thread, but also a lot of sense... You just have to make the car yours after you get over all the down points... This car is focused on drivability, and none of us have even tested THAT out yet... So until that gets put to the test, this car's whole make or break is riding on that and price...

Looks IMO is always subjective, and can always be improved after purchase... Drivability is a harder thing to overcome...

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

GDIAF.

We straight man, no worries I seen your other post...

[c0rbin]

The car is supposed to be barebones and pure. You don't understand the concept behind the car if you are asking for options that complicate the mechanics, add weight, and make it more expensive.

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

More available Scions for the actual drivers. Scion, you clever devils!:

So, BRZ drivers are not actual drivers, just because they appreciate a couple little things here and there that won't really add enough weight to impact the performance of the car, but it looks/feels nicer? LOL.

This isn't the first time Toyota did something like this btw. I remember with my 2000 Celica GT-S that JPN got the nice digital hvac controls while we got the crap knobs.

Originally Posted by c0rbin

The car is supposed to be barebones and pure. You don't understand the concept behind the car if you are asking for options that complicate the mechanics, add weight, and make it more expensive.

Looks like it still has A/C, power windows, and a radio, so no. It's just Scion/Toyota doing the typical make a standard car, strip all the goodies from it to get people to look at the lower entry price, them bend them over at the dealership on options, and not call them the day after.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The Scion will hugely fail for me at 25k base. That would also mean the BRZ base would be closer to 30 IMO, which would make the BRZ fail for me too. The car simply isn't worth that.

This.

Originally Posted by MPLexus301

Seems to me like the people complaining are the ones who'd actually plunk down the extra cash for the nicer hardware. See above.

That's where you'd be wrong.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'd run out of time before I could finish the cars I'd buy before the LFA.. not tht it's not a great car, but it's not the kind of car I'd want.

I'd sleep with Paris for a weekend with the LFA

[c0rbin]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

Looks like it still has A/C, power windows, and a radio, so no. It's just Scion/Toyota doing the typical make a standard car, strip all the goodies from it to get people to look at the lower entry price, them bend them over at the dealership on options, and not call them the day after.

Those are pretty much standard on modern cars. Heated seats and climate control are luxuries. I don't even WANT those kind of options. As I said, they make the car less focused as a sports car and worse. I don't think Toyota is making as big a profit on this car as you think. With the rate of monetary inflation its amazing to me that they can even offer it in the low $20k range.

[gte]

The MRS does not debunk anything

I wanted a smaller and lowered powered sexy rwd sports car (compared to the Supra).

They had that, and then they pulled back and didn't deliver, that is my real complaint.

Originally Posted by Ryephile

So your real complaint isn't that Toyota made the MR Spyder until 2007 [thus debunking your 14 year theory], it's that you wanted a new Supra. Since Toyota was adamant since 2009 that this car would be an AE86 successor [and upheld that promise] your dislike is frankly misguided.

If you don't like the 86, that's fine. Don't get bent that it's not something else.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by KAuss

We straight man, no worries I seen your other post...

:happy0180:

[JohnnyR]

It's OK to feel upset. When I first read about the car before they shown off pics it sounded like they were bringing back the Celica, which I was all for. The way they talked about it, it sounded like it was going to be like the 80's all over again, with the Celica Supra, or even All-Trac. Then things shifted to the 86, which I was fine with again. They focused on weight, handling, affordability they claimed. So I thought that this car can make a good daily commuter then at least. The motor output then got leaked at 200hp and 151tq and thought, yuck, from a motor in 2011 for a 2013 model year car. But the real bombshell came out when Subaru slipped up on the weight of the car a few times which fall between 2700-2800lbs. Toyota is so ashamed of this they didn't release it yet themselves over here since they were hyping it up to be an ultra-light car. This thing will be a dog trying to power out of certain turns you can't carry enough speed into. Then I'm sure the price will be the final bombshell that hits people.

I was hoping to see Toyota get back into the game, get back to their 90's glory days, but this certainly hasn't helped them. If they really are working on a "next-gen Supra", I'm really-really worried about that car. Especially considering that they seem to be going to retirement homes for surveys on what a performance car should be.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I'd sleep with Paris for a weekend with the LFA

wow...even i wouldn't do that and id do some crazy shit. Your a man with balls of steel! I commend you for taking one to chase your dreams.

[suprachica79]

Originally Posted by subaruslow

yeah this car is about driving not about options. I kindly would not pay 2,000 more for nice seats. Sounds like you should get a big comfy sedan, and while this car looks cool its not for you. Did you read anything about it? It's not a plush luxury car, its a cheap sports car? duh

I know what the car is about, I've been reading about it for months. I want a car that's going to be a lot of fun, which this car is. It's got all the qualities I want, and had they not come out with dual CC, leather, etc. on the toyota car, I wouldn't miss the luxuries as much. But after seeing that the car does have those options in Japan, it frustrates me that we can't get them here. And please don't tell me what cars are for me, as I don't tell you what cars are for you.

And on another note, if the car is about bare bones, then why are those options even offered in any countries at all? If toyota didn't think they fit the car, they wouldn't be offered anywhere, period. I think Toyota knows the vision of this car better than anyone else, they are the ones who came up with the vision.

[c0rbin]

^ The power and weight is because of emissions and safety regulations. Toyota/Subaru engineers did the best they could with the constraints, which turned out to be a damn good job.

[suprachica79]

Originally Posted by KAuss

Both cars ARE Subaru... They're built in their plant by Subaru hands / machines...

This is really why I facepalm so much when you defy the very thing you speak out of pure stubbornness...

What is wrong with a Subaru? They make awesome cars...

O it is complete stubornness lol and I even know that it's completely dumb, but for some reason I just feel this bad connotation with Subaru. And I am not fond of the local Subaru dealers as well.

[gt86vx]

with your knowledge, make your own new toyota sports car.

[Syldrin]

Originally Posted by gte

The MRS does not debunk anything

I wanted a smaller and lowered powered sexy rwd sports car (compared to the Supra).

They had that, and then they pulled back and didn't deliver, that is my real complaint.

you do know that supra doesnt mean "only sports car ever made" just because that is your bias doesnt make you the authority on the topic.