P&L Header Dyno and Fitment test-With my Vortech Test Kit

[P&L Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

@P&L Motorsports

Not to derail this thread but any mention of you guy's oil cooler solution would rock!

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

I'll be in there today, and bug Paul about it for you.

Consider him bugged.

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

I have this sinking suspicion that I'll never see it again (if he keeps it, he's getting a new one for me. He's not stealing it.)

We've got one earmarked for you on this production run.


-Dylan@P&L

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

With the exhaust I am running I have the P&L turbo header which is almost exactly like the header for N/A...except mine goes through a turbo and downpipe before going to the overpipe. I am also running catless with only a resonator and a small muffler in the back. This whole setup is extremely quiet (except for the wastegate opening at 7psi into an open dump). On the street and cruising tire noise is louder than the exhaust ....
]

Because Turbo

best muffler around

[Chewie4299]

Originally Posted by xxscaxx

Just keep in mind that it will be quieter no matter what from him running F/I.

Either way though, excited to see the power it produces and your review on it.

Since he's running a supercharger and not a turbo I don't think this is true at all.

[Jeff86]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

Having driven both the catted and Uncatted, with a properly resonated exhaust, that has a quiet muffler the catted version is fine for DD. It is a bit loud, but to quote gem, "It's loud, but not as loud as I expected."

He actually has my production header, bought and paid for. All of the headers they had in were spoken for, so I helped set it up for them to ship him mine to test.

I have this sinking suspicion that I'll never see it again (if he keeps it, he's getting a new one for me. He's not stealing it.)

I have really enjoyed reading the thread on your testing of these headers. I think my biggest concern is long trips and constant drone. I like taking weekend trips in this car. Would you say that 5+ hour drives at 70mph would give me a pounding headache?

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by Jeff86

I have really enjoyed reading the thread on your testing of these headers. I think my biggest concern is long trips and constant drone. I like taking weekend trips in this car. Would you say that 5+ hour drives at 70mph would give me a pounding headache?

Well, I drive over 400m a week for my daily commute, and even uncatted I started to get accustom to it, but there was some drone and it got to me. The cat made things far more tolerable, and for only a slight reduction in performance, for me, it was worth it.

I personally think you should be fine on a longer drive, depending on what exhaust you are running, but Dylan and I have been working on sound clips. We've filmed my full P&L exhaust extensively, and once I get the header on, we will do a second run to compare the car and post it up for you guys.

[Huehuecoyotl]

pics of it on car sorry about the quality, only had cell handy

temp readings show a huge difference between ceramic section vs non ceramic section. the ceramic stuff is worth the money if you ask me. temp gun doesnt lie, the higher temps were from uncoated sections just inches away from coated sections, granted we let things cool before working on it but the difference is obvious. the header was surprisingly cooler than the rest of the pipes.

Its loud with the unresonated perrin, but feels great. Fine for racecar.

For DD for those who dont like loud you may want the resonated perrin, I bet thats alot quieter, most of my sound is coming from the muffler

Fit worked out good, obviously when mixing brands like Perrin and P&L there is some tweaking to do. Advice is to not snug it all up till you have it where you want it. I wasnt able to get what I wanted in the way of adjustment on my back. I assembled it all at home fine.

To get the ability to lossen the whole exhaust, line it up and get it where I was happy took just under 30 mins at my local shop, guy charged me $20. It was making sure gaskets are centered. Lift makes this so easy, but can be done at home in a pinch, just take time.

making sure there was room for everything to move, bump etc. using a small pry bar and a second set of hands made it easy to line it all up. the slot on the perrin would benefit being made a few mm wider, so if you have the time, drop it down take a air grinder and make it fit just perfect with under 5 minutes invested

There is noticeable more throttle response, lower end 'grunt', it sounds kinda angry, to be honest. I like it. top end rips nice. buttocks dyno says we much stronger down low, and a bit higher up top too. as I have time and budget I will get to a dyno

the fan harness on radiator fan is too close for my liking, thats the only minor gripe with the design, nothing a few zipties cant solve

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by Jeff86

That header is beautiful Gem! I'd love to hear your opinion on the sound of the catted version. Is it painfully loud in the car or is cat helpful enough at drone reduction? Would you say it's reasonably daily drivable with a reasonably quiet exhaust? Thanks!

Its not painfully loud at all ever, drone btwn 3500-4000 if youre on hwy on a non resonated system

I have the unresonated perrin so its louder than it needs to be, but it flows oh so nice, and pulls great.
If I was gonna daily drive it, I suppose it would be fine if I was not in stop and go traffic, its gonna be just fine with a smallish 4x18x2.5" resonator, I may juist add this to my existing setup, or try a perrin resonated pipe. That woukld make it just fine for daily use. will keep you posted

but really if your adding aheader, the best performance gains are how I have it, no resonators and 2nd cat totally takes the edge off, except btwn 3500-4000

Originally Posted by Chewie4299

Since he's running a supercharger and not a turbo I don't think this is true at all.

SC's arent in the exhaust path like a TC so they dont have the same direct impact that TCs do on sound

Originally Posted by Jeff86

I have really enjoyed reading the thread on your testing of these headers. I think my biggest concern is long trips and constant drone. I like taking weekend trips in this car. Would you say that 5+ hour drives at 70mph would give me a pounding headache?

Nothing give a headache, but the sound is definitely race car, its a header guys, what do you expect? the pull you get in lower rpms, the total hooked into my brain using my spinal cord throttle response is great, as you take steps to quiet it down, you will be taking away that eagerness, that willingness, to some degree, I say try it as I have it, the perrin options for res and non res and this header and you can choose between tame and wild

I kinda like wild..

[Huehuecoyotl]

adding update:

its GREAT at the track

it IS loud on my 2 hr drive to track. Will be adding a resonator or buying a trailer!

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

adding update:

its GREAT at the track

it IS loud on my 2 hr drive to track. Will be adding a resonator or buying a trailer!

wouldn't a Highflow cat help a bit ? or maybe a front pipe with a Helmholtz resonators ?

[Huehuecoyotl]

nah, I have 2 cats, its just spending that much time in the car on the way there makes you want a little less because racecar than with no resonator while 100% fine on the track for a 20 minute session, it did tire my ears both on my 2 hrs there and back.

*I can not imagine a catless header on a DD*

I think a 12" or 18" resonator will do the trick. Just wanted to clarify whats fine around town is a bit more to deal with on an extended drive

I try and not hurt a vendor's hopes of selling an item, but like to maintain my level of candor so just wanting to set the expectations: if you have a loud exhaust note it will get about twice as loud with a header, thats my take on it

power levels are awesome on the track just as it is, so thast something to think about, I want as little resonator as needed, but I feel after my 4hrs + drive today that I want one to spend that kind of time in the cabin

that said, no way in hell I am putting the stock one back on

[evilconcarne999]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

nah, I have 2 cats, its just spending that much time in the car on the way there makes you want a little less because racecar than with no resonator while 100% fine on the track for a 20 minute session, it did tire my ears both on my 2 hrs there and back.

*I can not imagine a catless header on a DD*

I think a 12" or 18" resonator will do the trick. Just wanted to clarify whats fine around town is a bit more to deal with on an extended drive

I try and not hurt a vendor's hopes of selling an item, but like to maintain my level of candor so just wanting to set the expectations: if you have a loud exhaust note it will get about twice as loud with a header, thats my take on it

power levels are awesome on the track just as it is, so thast something to think about, I want as little resonator as needed, but I feel after my 4hrs + drive today that I want one to spend that kind of time in the cabin

that said, no way in hell I am putting the stock one back on

i have the borla UEL header and running pretty much a straight piped design with my exhaust, only stock piece i have on my exhaust is the midpipe, i am free of all cats and running a muffler delete track pipe and my car is my daily driver and love the rumble and angry exhaust note i have. I love the noise and the subaru rumble and cant get enough of the sound even though it can get extremely loud lol. If its too loud or i am driving by a cop i just take my foot out of the accelerator and its fine. It sounds like a completely different engine under the hood esp at wot and i love it. But im sure thats just me though, to each their own and grats on a nice build.

[shu5892001]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

nah, I have 2 cats, its just spending that much time in the car on the way there makes you want a little less because racecar than with no resonator while 100% fine on the track for a 20 minute session, it did tire my ears both on my 2 hrs there and back.

*I can not imagine a catless header on a DD*

I think a 12" or 18" resonator will do the trick. Just wanted to clarify whats fine around town is a bit more to deal with on an extended drive

I try and not hurt a vendor's hopes of selling an item, but like to maintain my level of candor so just wanting to set the expectations: if you have a loud exhaust note it will get about twice as loud with a header, thats my take on it

power levels are awesome on the track just as it is, so thast something to think about, I want as little resonator as needed, but I feel after my 4hrs + drive today that I want one to spend that kind of time in the cabin

that said, no way in hell I am putting the stock one back on

Gem,

So you are running the perrin catted front pipe with the P&L catted header and it is still not tolerable on the street?

Would your supercharger make it louder?

I am planning to run a catted front pipe with a catless header for DD, but my car will be N/A.

So I'm not sure if it would be tolerable after seeing what you wrote...

[Huehuecoyotl]

everyones judgement is different

its true, foot off accel, and its quiet, climb a hill in that rpm range, and it can get extremely loud

I am a 40 yr old guy with a 90+ mile commute to PHX

In my opinion, the right setup for street is resonated if youre gonna do a header and drive for extended periods

If you keep it under 3500 its VERY streetable the way I have my car
I just cant seem to keep it below 3500, my 90+ miles back from PHX gains about 3000 feet...so my foot is IN IT
I think the SC adds to the volume

[TRD_07]

Awesome! Would like to see the dyno before the sc oil spill and after the header install. Thanks.