Got my car back from Vortech!-3rd party tests & test drivers thread

[2forme]

Originally Posted by TemeCal

I'm just saying you PISS in EVERY single thread and it gets OLD! Very OLD! I was just asking for your qualifications, since you're obviously more knowledgeable than Perrin and every other person on this forum. So, what ARE your qualifications???

And mods, seriously, why does Gem get reprimanded constantly, but you give 2forme a pass?

Because I'm not a douche or offensive in my posts and I actually bring quality information to the table? Just a guess.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by TemeCal

I'm just saying you PISS in EVERY single thread and it gets OLD! Very OLD! I was just asking for your qualifications, since you're obviously more knowledgeable than Perrin and every other person on this forum. So, what ARE your qualifications???

And mods, seriously, why does Gem get reprimanded constantly, but you give 2forme a pass?

Can you refute any of 2forme's claims? From what he's said he's going off his own experience. I'd say that makes his qualification experience. If you don't believe him that's fine, there's no need to troll the thread about it.

Visconti is saying one thing, and all of the third party dyno runs are saying the same. Perrin is saying something else, but he can't explain why there's a difference. I asked for an explanation and even offered a possible cause but no reply was given. 2forme is still trying to find what that explanation is, that's a lot different then pissing on a thread.

[EZWood]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Which is fine, but when you're advertising one thing to sell your kits....

is that a question or a statement? or are you just stirring trouble?

[PERRIN_Jeff]

Originally Posted by Visconti

Dyno packs even on its low setting reads 15-20% higher then any dynojet.

DynoDynamics correction factor can be changed with 3 key strokes.. So it's all about what setting it's on.

Vortech kit is good for 240whp period on a dynojet.

Looking forward to seeing what some of the new stuff Lance @ vortech has does power wise.

John

No sense in muddying the waters on dynos and how they read. I have my opinions and experiences to prove what I said, and I trust what you say (coming from a tuner). It obviously this varies from East coast to west coast or people are changing numbers to make them all read closer to the same.


2forme,
Regarding Visconti posting dyno's people couldn't reproduce. That is great and all but I have dynos showing the same HP gain over stock on cars using our map. I don't care if the peak number was different! Hell, I have one from a high elevation and gain was the same as I saw, but overall peak numbers were lower.

We can't get all picky about the peak numbers, different dynos, cars, atmospheric conditions and many other things are going to effect this. Before and after is what matters. For me (and I would assume most customers), they are looking at this as a way to add 60HP in a rather easy fashion.

Also I want to be clear because it was said again. This is a Vortech Supercharger kit, that PERRIN makes a few maps for. Simple as that. We are not the only tuner for these, and we are not suppling maps to every person that buys these kits either. We are selling/supporting these kits to drive sales of our other parts and because customers need a HP solution like this. To tell you the truth, half of the reason for tuning these cars was for the fun and experience doing it. We are not tuners like Visconti where we do hundreds of customer cars over the year. We tune the hell out of our shop cars and employee cars, and take on a few special customer cars here and there. From this we create maps that customers can buy and or we create some great marketing tools for parts. Simple as that.

I don't discount Visconti and his tuning or the fact he was only able to make 240 WHP on a car. Now lets get some more results posted!

[2forme]

Ok, forget peak numbers. Let's talk gains over base. Your dyno shows 80whp gain over base. The 3 Phasteks are all 50ish. Skatery made 209.5 corrected before going to E85. Are you saying his car would have dynoed at 129, base.... even though another 86 dynoed at 160 NA on the same dyno?

What else have you done to your car for the extra 30whp above an exhaust (which at least one of the Phastek cars had)?

[WatchmaN]

this thread is getting....



move on

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by 2forme

LOL that's what I said at the end of my quote. That being said, I'll take cool oil over 5 degrees of IAT anyday. Your setup wouldn't work for me as I have the AOS.

I'll take hotter oil that doesnt rob me of power, the way a hot fmic does.

Its a temporary location till I find somewhere better. Im looking at passenger front wheel well but need longer hoses to do that.

washer bottle on driver side, putting the oil cooler infront of the fmic youre feeding the fmic hotter air than ambient that defeats the function

cold air equals the most power, so I'm runnin with that
looking fwd to trying out perrins tune next too

base fr-s = 157 whp
so 82.5whp gained, if you want to round up youre talking 100 hp crank, almost
I think alot of folks may want carb and a stellar warranty

[2forme]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

I'll take hotter oil that doesnt rob me of power, the way a hot fmic does.

Its a temporary location till I find somewhere better. Im looking at passenger front wheel well but need longer hoses to do that.

washer bottle on driver side, putting the oil cooler infront of the fmic youre feeding the fmic hotter air than ambient that defeats the function

cold air equals the most power, so I'm runnin with that
looking fwd to trying out perrins tune next too

base fr-s = 157 whp
so 82.5whp gained, if you want to rounbd up youre talking 100 hp crank

You're not a base FRS. And you're telling me I gained 17 whp from an SRT exhaust? LOL

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by Pete

I do have Jeff's tune, just for clarity. Those are my logs he's talking about with no knock.



LOL j/k man!

theres no knock at 7psi

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by 2forme

You're not a base FRS. And you're telling me I gained 17 whp from an SRT exhaust? LOL

is there a difference between a fa20 in a frs vs a brz power output wise???1st time I ever heard it mattering if youre frs or brz on dyno, same base vs limited makes no change in dyno hp afaik, same stuff, no? school me here

I'm telling you two dyno shops shared baselines with me of stock cars, one at 157whp, bone stock other was like 149 iirc. fwiw, I think my car baselined at like 143 or 133,I forget, on vortechs dyno which 'reads low'

I never said nothing about your car , its gains or srt. maybe your dyno reading was off?

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Ok, forget peak numbers. Let's talk gains over base. Your dyno shows 80whp gain over base. The 3 Phasteks are all 50ish. Skatery made 209.5 corrected before going to E85. Are you saying his car would have dynoed at 129, base.... even though another 86 dynoed at 160 NA on the same dyno?

What else have you done to your car for the extra 30whp above an exhaust (which at least one of the Phastek cars had)?

Its simple really.

John (and Gem's attempt to get more power) have shown 240WHP as max on pump gas.

Now we look at Perrin's dyno dynamics results (bolded) and compare to calculated 15-20% higher readings (red):

A. Close to 300WHP pump @ 13 psi
B. 247 WHP pump @ 7 psi



A. 240 WHP + an extra 20% = 288 WHP.
B. 200 WHP + an extra 20% = 240 WHP

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

theres no knock at 7psi

I know man it was a joke! My car drives very well now. Jeff said my logs looked good and I am fully satisfied.




[edit to add chart]

Horsepower gains are pretty linear up to about 7250 RPM, then I think the VE limitations start to occur as 2forme has mention a few times.

[Sonolin]

So any hopes for any videos from anybody running this kit?

I'd really like to see how it performs in real world conditions (outside/on track), and I'm sure plenty others do to.

Hook us up with a vid Hue!

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

John (and Gem's attempt to get more power) have shown 240WHP as max on pump gas.

Let me correct you, I went to get a baseline dyno.

Where did you see me state I attempted to make more power?

I have not yet tried to make more power.
No one has tried a different timing, fuel, or for that matter, I just removed the sourcepoint of hotter than needed IATs, so while SOME folks make it sound like 5degrees of IAT wont affect your power, others may disagree, respectfully.

infact, have yet to try any tune but the one my car came with. Id say I havent attempted much at all, yet

I have yet to try out some of the things I've been talking with Jeff about, so while you may be sure I'm done, I'm thinking I'm just gettin started! woo hoo!

I have no problem with it,You can form your conclusions anytime based on what you read, from what you learn and what we all are lead to believe , but I am just getting started with toying with what I just got under the hood, so I disagree with your above statement.

You, and others' responses, all make it sound like youre 100% sure John, Gem and Perrin all have the same exact kit, tunes and pulleys, gas, altitude,and so youre assuming we will all end up with the same results using the same pulley(s) with pulley being the only variable, and while I can neither confirm or deny the differences or similarities, it is a pretty big assumption for a platform that has different variants of different setups in test at present.

I started this thread saying my car was a test car. I would advise you all to be VERY careful with the assumptions being made in this thread, and want to point out when other foks present statements as fact, without knowing if its really true or not, this is what folks are calling lies, when as I see it, its a pretty good pretty educated guess, but you could still be wrong, especially if the assumptions your foundation is based on is wrong

I dont blame you, if I could say more I would, I swear. Hopefully a day will come when we will not have to assume things.

Gem