UK Price range £25-£32k!?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

If you're going to determine that based strictly on numbers you are wrong. The Mazda Miata wins that title. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mustang and Corvette folks right up there as well.

People really go nuts for the Miata? I know it sells well because of its low price point and its sporty nature but I would never want that car ever. I wasn't talking about numbers as cheaper cars can outsell pricey ones easy.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

People really go nuts for the Miata? I know it sells well because of its low price point and its sporty nature but I would never want that car ever. I wasn't talking about numbers as cheaper cars can outsell pricey ones easy.

It's probably the most popular modern race car for club and pro racing. They are great track cars, extremely fun to drive, etc.

Sure there are people who buy them because they are "cute" but there's a lot of people who buy them, build them (in all forms, NA, FI, V8 swaps, etc), race them, etc.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

It's probably the most popular modern race car for club and pro racing. They are great track cars, extremely fun to drive, etc.

Sure there are people who buy them because they are "cute" but there's a lot of people who buy them, build them (in all forms, NA, FI, V8 swaps, etc), race them, etc.

I agree with you on everything you say but I despise the looks of that car since the first gen was made. I would drive one but never spend money on one unless I was paying 2-3k for a used one just to drive around on twisty roads. I prefer the muscular looks of the s2k over the miata. And is the steering really that bad in the s2k? My RSX steering is ultra precise and perfectly weighted and I can't imagine the s2k being sub-par to it.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

It's funny you say that since it seems like 90% of "enthusiast cars" are well over 3000+ lbs and come well refined. In your opinion you feel the opposite. Some people can say that FWD is not "enthusiast car" friendly and I would gladly agree with them.

I realize every one has their judgement on what an enthusiast car is so it seems to me that it's mainly a matter of opinion amongst sporty cars.

More like 90% of new cars weigh more than 3000lbs. This wasn't always the case. It goes in cycles and I'm guessing that we will continue to see more new smaller/lighter cars if history is any indicator. It may not be like the 70's where the average car lost 1000lbs but I still foresee smaller/lighter cars will become more common again. Hopefully this means more fun and cheap cars too .

A lot of entry level sports cars stopped being fun and cheap around '93. Eg. there was the Nissan 240sx(Pre '94 94+ was debatable), RX-7(Pre '93 the 93+ FD was a supercar), even the Foxbody Mustang was available in a cheaper/lighter version until '94 although greatly underpowered.

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

People really go nuts for the Miata? I know it sells well because of its low price point and its sporty nature but I would never want that car ever. I wasn't talking about numbers as cheaper cars can outsell pricey ones easy.

Yes, for most intended purposes. The Miata is a sports car and it is still fairly close to it's original goals and purpose. I wouldn't bother comparing it to a GT car like the M3 though. Waste of time.

I was greatly disappointed when I found that even BMW had a cheap and fun RWD car in the US but discontinued it around '99. I am talking about the 318ti since it was shorter and lighter than the rest of the 3 series cars. Unfortunately it was not a "proper chop" so some people consider it ugly from the door back . The new BMW compact doesn't win any awards for beauty either though. That kind of comes with the territory, it's harder to scale big car body lines into a small package. Especially when you are cutting costs to make it cheaper.

I can think of anyway to keep this more ontopic.

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I agree with you on everything you say but I despise the looks of that car since the first gen was made. I would drive one but never spend money on one unless I was paying 2-3k for a used one just to drive around on twisty roads. I prefer the muscular looks of the s2k over the miata. And is the steering really that bad in the s2k? My RSX steering is ultra precise and perfectly weighted and I can't imagine the s2k being sub-par to it.

It's one thing if it was good looking and an underperformer. But the Miata is renown for it's abilities. I'm not a big fan of the style myself(except the NB) but I'm not about to bash it simply for that reason alone. I would caution going into a looks > performance debate on this forum. Especially the Miata.

[Laika]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

..and have zero interest in all AWD cars

Why is that? Just curious.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I agree with you on everything you say but I despise the looks of that car since the first gen was made. I would drive one but never spend money on one unless I was paying 2-3k for a used one just to drive around on twisty roads. I prefer the muscular looks of the s2k over the miata. And is the steering really that bad in the s2k? My RSX steering is ultra precise and perfectly weighted and I can't imagine the s2k being sub-par to it.

S2K = EPS (electric power steering) which = a whole lot less feel.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Laika

Why is that? Just curious.

Mostly because I don't tend to like how the cars feel when being driven. Add to that the extra weight, complexity, and eventually, cost, and I have zero interest. I greatly prefer the feel and dynamics of RWD over all others.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

S2K = EPS (electric power steering) which = a whole lot less feel.

That sucks!!! But the FT will have it too.

[chulooz]

Subaru makes EAPS. Electronic Assisted Power Steering

[Slide]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Subaru makes EAPS. Electronic Assisted Power Steering

Whats the diffrence?

[KAuss]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Not saying that I agree with KAuss but the M3 is the most highly regarded FR car in the world. It seems like everybody worships the ground the M3 drives on. I have never seen a article or review with hatred for the M3. I know this is a Toyota site and people probably think the car in question should be the Mark 4 Supra or something else from Japan. But you guys have to admit there is no FR car more popular among enthusiast like the ///M3.

That is the long way to say what I meant to say...

I'm not huge on the M3, I don't plan on ever owning one, but from everything that has been published for the car (in every generation), it is on the short list from the top...

I AM huge on Miatas... And it's funny... You go to different forums and you have way different audiences... I've said this on my truck forum and totally get ran out the house because Miata is a vehicle you can't "compensate" with *rolleyes*... However, a stock Miata is no fun unless your steering wheel is turning at incredible rates back and fourth... I'm all for the twisties don't get me wrong, but I also like getting glued to my seats from time to time...

I think the FR-S / FT86 is going to revive a dead segment... However it will not be something that will be the be all end all of FR machines... Like it or not, every manufacturer and every culture that have seen the M3 or M5, strive to make vehicles that perform the way they do in not just "racing" but also refinement... Is refinement good for a sports car? Maybe, depends who you talk to, is it good for a race car? Heck no... Is it good for a daily driver? Absolutely yes... So what car are you looking for?

I'm looking for one that is refine enough to drive everyday, but would make an excellent track car for when the groceries are out of the trunk... FR-S! However, if a M3 was the same price as the FR-S, there is no way I'm picking the FR-S at all..

[Andy]

Originally Posted by joshtimber

I think Cars in UK are more expensive than US?

Correct, due to the UK Tax/Robbing they are greatly more epensive!

Robbing Barstewards!

[Infernal]

Originally Posted by Andy

Correct, due to the UK Tax/Robbing they are greatly more epensive!

Robbing Barstewards!

as an example:
new base model prius in uk is £21,055 (or $32,542)
new one in us is $23,520 (or £15,217)

we also have to pay a tax when buying cars new - the amount of tax we pay is based on the amount of emissions it gives out - we then have to pay a yearly road tax depending on how much emissions the car produces

a tub of vaseline is a handy thing to take to a dealership if you want a new car in the UK...


back on topic though i think the car will be around the 20-22k £ mark - it needs to be competitive with the focus ST, astra VXR, Civic type r, bmw 1 series coupe, nobody will buy it otherwise unless it put out far more power with a FI engine or whatever

[MrVito]

So I get to work today and am floored by the massive volume of new picture, info etc that came out about the GT-86. Then I see the price in pounds, roughly 28,000. So I drop that in my currency converter and see the $43,800ish price in USD. Clearly the car won't sell for that much here. So I start comparing Toyotas prices in Europe after exchange rate to US prices, and the trend seems to be that MSRP for Toyota of America is about 70% of the MSRP for Toyota of Europe. I realize this, and there is a gleam of hope, but, then I do the math. $30,600. I can only hope that the articles are wrong on the price for the brits, or Toyota will be deeply discounting the car in the states.