UK Price range £25-£32k!?

[sfwg]

Originally Posted by KAuss

I know what'll be overpriced because I'm not trying to buy a Supra... I'm still saying the car has to start at 22K - 23K... Top out at 25K or else I'm out... (USD)

If they put 300 hp (I know not possible) in this thing to price it at 32K, then they're doing it all wrong... This is not a car I'm looking for even if the asking price is fair... Even official word is they're trying to take the cd player out of this car... THAT is what I'm looking for, for them to cut as many things out to get me a car that's fun to drive and keep expenses low...

This is suppose to be the Hachiroku reborn... They can save the 25K - 30K price point for a new Celica, and the 30K - 40K price point for a Supra... I'm looking at < 25K or else I'm out... I would seriously get a WRX 5 door hatch again for that money, I've owned one before and it's not going to be beat at the 25K segment... The only way it can is if they make a light weight rwd sports car priced at or under it...

The only thing I need / want would be HID lights...

sounds like a lotus elise is your style if this car falls through. can be had for 25k used

[KAuss]

Originally Posted by sfwg

sounds like a lotus elise is your style if this car falls through. can be had for 25k used

If we're going to talk about used vehicles, I can get a 2002ish M3 for the 25K asking price... That is probably without a doubt the best built FR car in the world...

Can't compare apples to oranges though, because that'll be like saying if I waited 5 years for model change on the FR-S they'll sell for 15K or less... (for 18K I can get a 2002 M5)

But yes, I dream long nights about the Elise... I was on that forum when the first Elise were announced for the US... My coworker is actually thinking about getting an Ariel Atom... I would be that guy lining up at DMV to register his car for him because there is a line every year for that vehicle since they only allow so many a year...

[Dave-ROR]

E46 m3 is a great highway car. Horrible enthusiasts car IMO. Too damn heavy and refined.

I'd go mazdaspeed3 over a wrx anyday if the week too.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by Andy

Well, as 25,000.00 GBP = 38,759.18 USD I really do hope WE in the UK get a fair deal!

If USA gets it for 25,000.00 USD = 16,125.23 GBPI want that price in the UK :p

All exchange rates at todays rate, via www.xe.com/ucc

You forgot to add the invisible premium we pay for simply living in Europe,
The problem is if it happens with this car and it rolls out at the £25k - £32k region thats in the second hand 911 -996 / 997 region. I`ll be straight after the porker and wont look twice at this. Unless its in the rear view mirror.

[ft86cbx]

Agreed. Anything north of £25k and this is going to be DOA never mind £32K.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by KAuss

If we're going to talk about used vehicles, I can get a 2002ish M3 for the 25K asking price... That is probably without a doubt the best built FR car in the world...

:l aughabove:



















:belly roll:

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

E46 m3 is a great highway car. Horrible enthusiasts car IMO. Too damn heavy and refined.

I'd go mazdaspeed3 over a wrx anyday if the week too.

It's funny you say that since it seems like 90% of "enthusiast cars" are well over 3000+ lbs and come well refined. In your opinion you feel the opposite. Some people can say that FWD is not "enthusiast car" friendly and I would gladly agree with them.

I realize every one has their judgement on what an enthusiast car is so it seems to me that it's mainly a matter of opinion amongst sporty cars.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

It's funny you say that since it seems like 90% of "enthusiast cars" are well over 3000+ lbs and come well refined. In your opinion you feel the opposite. Some people can say that FWD is not "enthusiast car" friendly and I would gladly agree with them.

I realize every one has their judgement on what an enthusiast car is so it seems to me that it's mainly a matter of opinion amongst sporty cars.

Depends on your defination of refined. Mine is more of isolation, feel, etc. Porsches are called refined in areas of road noise, interior quality, etc but every bit of feedback is provided to the driver through every interface. That is what makes a sports car to me. I want to be involved in the experience and I want to know exactly what the car is doing. What to many people may be annoying or "too raw" is just about perfect for me.

The E46 M3 and many other "sports cars" are refined to the point where it is no longer communicative with the driver. Hell BMW learned from the E46, the new M3s are better (I'd still take an E30 and a E36 [in that order] over an E92 though), the 1M is better, etc. Too bad that turbo motor's fuel pumps suck so badly :P

I agree on the weight issue, but that's a sign of the times. Sports cars under 3,000lbs aren'y going to be common for awhile (I do believe that the trend will reverse again, it really can't keep increasing...). Between safety equipment, the features that normal car buyers demand, the quality materials car buyers demand (at least in the better brands).

As for FWD, I greatly prefer RWD. Then FWD and have zero interest in all AWD cars (except for 2.5 RS's, I love driving those). However, for many years (and until march or so next year it's still true) good, fun to drive RWD cars are simply at a pricepoint that I don't see as being worth it. And since someone will say it, yes I've driven Gen Coupes and found them beyond boring to drive, R Specs at that.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Depends on your defination of refined. Mine is more of isolation, feel, etc. Porsches are called refined in areas of road noise, interior quality, etc but every bit of feedback is provided to the driver through every interface. That is what makes a sports car to me. I want to be involved in the experience and I want to know exactly what the car is doing. What to many people may be annoying or "too raw" is just about perfect for me.

The E46 M3 and many other "sports cars" are refined to the point where it is no longer communicative with the driver. Hell BMW learned from the E46, the new M3s are better (I'd still take an E30 and a E36 [in that order] over an E92 though), the 1M is better, etc. Too bad that turbo motor's fuel pumps suck so badly :P

I agree on the weight issue, but that's a sign of the times. Sports cars under 3,000lbs aren'y going to be common for awhile (I do believe that the trend will reverse again, it really can't keep increasing...). Between safety equipment, the features that normal car buyers demand, the quality materials car buyers demand (at least in the better brands).

As for FWD, I greatly prefer RWD. Then FWD and have zero interest in all AWD cars (except for 2.5 RS's, I love driving those). However, for many years (and until march or so next year it's still true) good, fun to drive RWD cars are simply at a pricepoint that I don't see as being worth it. And since someone will say it, yes I've driven Gen Coupes and found them beyond boring to drive, R Specs at that.

You are the first individual to ever say that about the the E46 M3. Every reviewer and guy who owns one says otherwise. You also mentioned your S2K was boring so I just think it's your OPINION and that's what I meant in my last post.

[WolfpackS2k]

How can someone claim the E46 M3 to be one of the best built FR coupes of all time when it has that well known issue of cracking it's rear subframe?

Or is that problem not as widespread as I thought?

Who mentioned automatic climate control on the first page? Honestly, why would you ever need that? If you're too warm then turn the knob more towards the blue. If you're too cold then turn the knob a bit back to the red. In a small 2 door coupe you never need anything beyond that to stay comfortable. And most automatic climate control systems suck because the require leaving the air conditioning on all the time, even when you don't need it.

Amenities I want for this car:
-Air conditioning
-HID headlights
-CD player (no less than 4 speakers, preferrably 6)
-iPod integration
-steering wheel adjustable for tilt and telescope
-spare tire
-trunk pass thru for skis (fold down seats would be nice, but I fear that would reduce structural rigidity)

I don't need a sunroof, I don't need (or want) leather seats, could care less about a motorized seat, indifferent about power windows or mirrors.

RE: S2000s. A common criticizm of them is relatively numb steering. I haven't noticed that problem but this is the first RWD sports car I've owned so I don't have a lot to compare to.

[SUB-FT86]

Not saying that I agree with KAuss but the M3 is the most highly regarded FR car in the world. It seems like everybody worships the ground the M3 drives on. I have never seen a article or review with hatred for the M3. I know this is a Toyota site and people probably think the car in question should be the Mark 4 Supra or something else from Japan. But you guys have to admit there is no FR car more popular among enthusiast like the ///M3.

[WolfpackS2k]

If you're going to determine that based strictly on numbers you are wrong. The Mazda Miata wins that title. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mustang and Corvette folks right up there as well.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You are the first individual to ever say that about the the E46 M3. Every reviewer and guy who owns one says otherwise. You also mentioned your S2K was boring so I just think it's your OPINION and that's what I meant in my last post.

Of course it's just my opinion. Just as everything you post is just your opinion.

This is a subjective conversation afterall.

Talk to E46 owners that also own other cars, like E36s, etc. They use other cars for the track, and E46s as daily drivers.

I've driven an E46 for about 1,500 miles and about 3 hours on CMP. For the 1,500 mile driver it was an absolutely wonderful car. For the 3 hours on CMP I was extremely dissappointed. The owner of that car, who is a friend of mine, completely agrees. It's his DD, we only tracked it because we had to rebuild his track cars motor. Another friend with an E46 also loves his for the street, but retired it from track use for an E36 because it's a hands down better driver's car.

An E46 is far from the best FR car ever. It's a great GT car though IMO.

How many miles/track hours have you logged in either an E46 M3 or the S2000? The S2K is the opposite, absolutely great fun on the track but I found it less than engaging on the street.

When I think of engaging communicative cars, things like 911s come to mind, Lotus Elises, etc.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

How can someone claim the E46 M3 to be one of the best built FR coupes of all time when it has that well known issue of cracking it's rear subframe?

Or is that problem not as widespread as I thought?

I know some owners with rear subframe issues, and many without. It's not uncommon, but I'd put it in the 996 911 IMS failure category. IE, somewhat exaggerated. It happens, and has been a problem on more than just E46s, but it's not a problem that happens on every car or every 10 cars, etc..

Who mentioned automatic climate control on the first page? Honestly, why would you ever need that? If you're too warm then turn the knob more towards the blue. If you're too cold then turn the knob a bit back to the red. In a small 2 door coupe you never need anything beyond that to stay comfortable. And most automatic climate control systems suck because the require leaving the air conditioning on all the time, even when you don't need it.

I actually prefer to move the controls around. I've found that setting on setting X doesn't always result in what I want anyways. Some of the "smart" systems also try to control vents in weird ways, drivers side will get colder air than pass side, etc. Annoying.

Amenities I want for this car:
-Air conditioning
-HID headlights
-CD player (no less than 4 speakers, preferrably 6)
-iPod integration
-steering wheel adjustable for tilt and telescope
-spare tire
-trunk pass thru for skis (fold down seats would be nice, but I fear that would reduce structural rigidity)

I'd agree except I'd want 6 speakers just to avoid cutting a hole in the door panel myself, and the CD player is worthless to me.

I don't need a sunroof, I don't need (or want) leather seats, could care less about a motorized seat, indifferent about power windows or mirrors.

I'd want power windows (they also tend to be lighter than mech windows in a lot of cars). Unless there was tons of headroom a sunroof would prevent me from buying the car (I have no interest in opening the sunroof just to fit a helmet over my head) and even with headroom I'd prefer no sunroof. The rest I mostly agree. I'd want seat heaters though, feels nice on my back :P

RE: S2000s. A common criticizm of them is relatively numb steering. I haven't noticed that problem but this is the first RWD sports car I've owned so I don't have a lot to compare to.

Very numb steering. By far my biggest complaint with the car. The CDV is annoying also as it reduces some clutch feel but I got over that.