Best and cheap track wheels in 17x8

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I thought Rota had wheel failure issues?

Wheels have failure issues. I've watched RPF1's fail on a car in front of me, I've bent up several wheels with off-track excursions.

The moment you go play at the track, a lot more parts on the car become "wear items" and that includes wheels.

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Wheels have failure issues. I've watched RPF1's fail on a car in front of me, I've bent up several wheels with off-track excursions.

The moment you go play at the track, a lot more parts on the car become "wear items" and that includes wheels.

I remember about ten years ago Rota had noticeably higher and more dramatic instances of failure. All wheels can fail, but that one brand had enough issues that I remember it all these years later. They've probably cleared up the issue since then, but I had to ask since someone was recommending them.

[WheelDude.com]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I remember about ten years ago Rota had noticeably higher and more dramatic instances of failure. All wheels can fail, but that one brand had enough issues that I remember it all these years later. They've probably cleared up the issue since then, but I had to ask since someone was recommending them.

yup, cleaned up, couple bad batches of subzeros and attacks, but they are voluntarily recalled and discontinued as well.

[rice_classic]

Can we talk about width and the law of diminishing returns for a moment?

Here's an example that played out a couple years back.

I race a 2250lb car with driver and 125whp. Max wheel size is 15x7" wheels. When this situation occurred we were running Toyo RA1's. Race distance is 30 minutes. Tried 205/50/15 and 225/45/15 back to back (no my car but identical to what I race). The lap times were the same.

To reiterate: The lap times were the same.

Now we didn't have data acquisition but when we discussed this with several other drivers and with race tire shops and veterans we discovered a few principles were at play, the first 2 being the most important:


1: Increase width = increase rolling resistance. This affects low hp cars more.
2: How the total size of combined contact patch (of 4 tires) correlates with the weight and speed of the vehicle in generating the appropriate amount of heat for the tire. Too wide of tire for too light of a car or too slow of a car means the tire will operate too cool and not produce optimal grip.
3: Increase width = Increase in rolling mass or unsprung weight.

Considering this car is quite light and only has 170whp it shouldn't be overly demanding of the rubber on top of the fact that unlike my FWD race car that over burdens the front tires this car will "spread the load" between all 4 (unless you're drifting which over heats the rears).

Last year I was discussing tire temps with a Hankook rep (BTW I love Hankook Z214 C51's!) and he told me that if I can't get the tire above 170F I'm "over-tired" and sacrificing performance and that I'd be faster running a slightly skinnier tire but in the 170-210F range to maximize lateral grip and I will also see a slight benefit on the long straights.

So I've said all that to ask this:

At what width do my lap times stop improving?

At what width does my total contact patch exceed my car's weight and power to generate appropriate temperature for optimal performance (if using that type of DOT tire)?

Or the transverse: I have a tire (like the Star Specs) that don't need a lot of heat so what width would I need in which I can run them as hard as I want for the entire session without overheating them?


Hope this helps.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I thought Rota had wheel failure issues? They may have corrected the issue, but I'd hate to have a wheel fail on track in the fashion I remember from old pictures of Rotas.

Mostly hater talk, the proof is at the track.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I remember about ten years ago Rota had noticeably higher and more dramatic instances of failure. All wheels can fail, but that one brand had enough issues that I remember it all these years later. They've probably cleared up the issue since then, but I had to ask since someone was recommending them.

The biggest flaw I see is that people don't inspect their wheels. I've seen LOTS of broken wheels at the race track and most are the $$$ kind. Most of the time the wheels will show signs before they give such as cracking.

Last year I was a double race weekend and had to toss a set of my wheels in the garbage because 3 of the 4 had hair-link cracks in most of the spokes and on one the crack was all the way through a spoke. I would have had a catastrophic wreck had I not inspected my wheels as that track I was is lined by cement walls.


ON TOPIC: Sorry the 949 racing doesn't make 17x8's because those wheels are GREAT!

The RPF1's are great, many racers including my most competitive rival swear by them.

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by WheelDude.com

yup, cleaned up, couple bad batches of subzeros and attacks, but they are voluntarily recalled and discontinued as well.

Thanks. I knew I wasn't losing my mind on this one. Glad to know they handled it correctly.

[diirk]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

So I've said all that to ask this:

At what width does my total contact patch exceed my car's weight and power to generate appropriate temperature for optimal performance (if using that type of DOT tire)?

Hope this helps.

If I recall correctly, Scoobie South is autox'ing on a 245/40-17 and his tires are tending to get a little hot. 200° +.

Overall, great info and insight. Thanks for sharing.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by diirk

If I recall correctly, Scoobie South is autox'ing on a 245/40-17 and his tires are tending to get a little hot. 200° +.

Overall, great info and insight. Thanks for sharing.

I spent a couple years autocrossing... I can't wrap my head around how anyone gets a tire that hot in 45 seconds. Are you lighting them on fire?

I did a 30 minute flat out road race in Spokane WA on a 95 degree day and my front tires on a FWD race car only got to 170F when measured with a needle point tire pyrometer.

Scoobie South.. please chime in how you can increase the temperature of a tire by 100+ degrees in under 60 seconds. I'm having trouble with the physics.

[Scooby South]

Mine has never gotten that hot... don't even know where that came from.. on my RS-3s ... they never got over 120 on a 90 degree day and a 60 sec run.. I have only had to Water them down once this year... Sorry Diirk don't know where you got that info..

Bill

[Scooby South]

I am running 17x9 Rota DPT's with a 42...and have 245/40/17 Hankook RS3's... I have NO problem whatsoever with my ROTA wheels... My car is setup for National level AutoX. with 2 drivers... I have over 100 runs on the DPTs this year so far and absolutely have no issues. My total Rim and tire package is 45lbs each...which is well within my acceptable range of budget and performance... I am running coilovers, Bushings and some other goodies specific to my AutoX Build... I have a number of Index Wins...as well as a number of 1-2 Class Finishes.. and have put Stresses on my wheels of what I would not call normal..they have performed flawlessly..I can't afford 5000 Dollar wheels... but I can make sure my vehicle is as competitive as I can make it within my budget....

Bill





17x8 can run 245's with no issues... I will probably upgrade to 255's after these 245's die..

I am running 17x7 with 235/40/17 with no issues either..



17x9...I have run 285's on before..soo its all about perspective...



Thanks

[RacelineUSA_Matt]

I would recommend the Enkei RPF1. They're light, rigid, and are affordable. Hit me up if you're interested!

[diirk]

Originally Posted by Scooby South

Mine has never gotten that hot... don't even know where that came from.. on my RS-3s ... they never got over 120 on a 90 degree day and a 60 sec run.. I have only had to Water them down once this year... Sorry Diirk don't know where you got that info..

Bill

No sweat Bill. Not sure where I got that idea either. I've read so much of your stuff on here and NASIOC. It's quite possible someone else mentioned it in one of your threads. But whatever the case, I'm glad you came in here and cleared up my mistake.

Your build is inspiration for mine, so I follow all your posts.

[Scooby South]

No Worries.....Thanks

Bill