When should i do an oil change?

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by R L Newb

I gotcha covered on that

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13286

Mobil 1 has never had great success in the Subaru world. I think there are a few threads suggesting types but the oem seems to work well

That's because so many WRX owner's that have tried Mobil1 use their Resource Conserving 5W-30, and RC 5W-30 is designed to shear to a 20 grade for the best fuel economy. They get all freaked out when they do a uoa (on a modified 400 hp STI) and find that the oil has sheared which is what all RC oils are designed to do.

Mobil1 makes several good robust oils (TDT 5W-40, 0W40, all of the High Mileage oils), but there is no data to suggest that M1 0W-20 is a bad choice in a FRS/BRZ.

-Dennis

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by DaJoian

Do we know what kind of oil our vehicles use from factory?

I just called up Subaru today and they told me the vehicle comes with "break-in" oil from factory.
That and it needs to stay in the engine for the recommended 5000 -10000 kilometers before its first "service type A" (oil change).

The BRZ probably comes with the same Idemitsu 0W-20 that Forester's come with. The factory fill Idemitsu oil is different than the dealer fill Idemitsu and has higher levels of moly, zinc, and phosphorus to aid in break-in. No use in draining it too early.

-Dennis

[sa1126]

I just passed 2k miles and am planning to change it this weekend. Mobil 1 is the only oil I could find at the parts store but I'm heading to the dealership to get factory oil.

[JoeBoxer]

Wish i hadn't waited so long i have 3300 miles and Motul 0w20 and K&N oil filter ordered that should be here this week. They didn't have the Mishimoto drain plug in stock so going to leave it factory for now, replacing the crush washer of course. Crawford recommended this oil and filter so i am excited to get it changed.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by DaJoian

Do we know what kind of oil our vehicles use from factory?

I just called up Subaru today and they told me the vehicle comes with "break-in" oil from factory.
That and it needs to stay in the engine for the recommended 5000 -10000 kilometers before its first "service type A" (oil change).

Originally Posted by bluesubie

The BRZ probably comes with the same Idemitsu 0W-20 that Forester's come with. The factory fill Idemitsu oil is different than the dealer fill Idemitsu and has higher levels of moly, zinc, and phosphorus to aid in break-in. No use in draining it too early.

-Dennis

Ah, the famous "break-in oil from the factory." While it's true that UOAs on a first dump will show high moly, it has been argued that the moly is left over assembly paste from the factory line, not part of a "break-in oil" recipe.

Nine years ago, I discussed the subject of break-in oil with regard to motorcycles with an engineer from Yamaha. He said that there is no such thing as break-in oil, that Yamaha buys oil in bulk, probably cheaper quality oil than most stuff on the retail shelf, and uses that in new bikes.

Does break-in oil really exist? I'm still up in the air on that one. Personally, I've dumped "break-in oil" as early as at 20 miles on some of my vehicles and, far from causing harm, it was on engines that later turned in the best compressions and dyno runs. On the other hand, it is true that many owners manuals say, not that there is break-in oil, but that you should not change out your oil until the first recommended service interval. A possible reason is that they don't want new owner Johnny Motor Expert to put full synthetic in the engine before the rings have seated.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Ah, the famous "break-in oil from the factory." While it's true that UOAs on a first dump will show high moly, it has been argued that the moly is left over assembly paste from the factory line, not part of a "break-in oil" recipe.

Nine years ago, I discussed the subject of break-in oil with regard to motorcycles with an engineer from Yamaha. He said that there is no such thing as break-in oil, that Yamaha buys oil in bulk, probably cheaper quality oil than most stuff on the retail shelf, and uses that in new bikes.

Does break-in oil really exist? I'm still up in the air on that one. Personally, I've dumped "break-in oil" as early as at 20 miles on some of my vehicles and, far from causing harm, it was on engines that later turned in the best compressions and dyno runs. On the other hand, it is true that many owners manuals say, not that there is break-in oil, but that you should not change out your oil until the first recommended service interval. A possible reason is that they don't want new owner Johnny Motor Expert to put full synthetic in the engine before the rings have seated.

The high moly in a factory fill Idemitsu uoa is from the assembly lube and from the factory fill oil. The factory fill also has higher levels of zinc and phosphorus than the dealer oil. Feel free to contact Idemitsu Lubricants of America, but it probably wouldn't help to contact the Yamaha engineer.
This is in response to an email about the Subaru and Toyota factory fills (pre BRZ/FRS). This comes from ILA:

You ask some very good questions which I will answer in “generalities”. First, just so you know where the information is coming from, Idemitsu supplies most of the OEM’s for both Factory fill and service fill. In the case of Toyota, we do not supply their service fill oil so I cannot comment on that particular formulation.

OEMs specify Moly in their factory fill formulations to increase fuel economy during the initial period. In general a factory fill formula will be more robust in the additive treatments etc. This is done for a variety of reasons which I will not go into here.

Some of the service fill formulations also contained molybdenum however, with the transition to the ILSAC GF-5 specification, most 0W-20 service fill 0W-20 formulations now do not have Moly. That being said, you are always safest following the OEMs recommendations. All service fill OE formulas that we supply have been submitted to a full battery of tests at that respective OEM’s R&D facilities in Japan and have been approved.

-Dennis

[R L Newb]

It almost sounds like the car manufacturer's hire engineers to determine safe oil change intervals and an appropriate oil composition and weight. That can't be true though

[Marrk]

@bluesubie: "most 0W-20 service fill 0W-20 formulations now do not have Moly."


I thought I saw a Blackstone report on this forum of a first dump UOA that had approx. 750 moly.



Thanks for the info. So, you're going to change out your OEM first fill at 7,500 mi.?

[Liquidsnake]

Im at 3100

Do I wait? Should I change it right away?
I was going to hold out till 5k.............

[Alienate]

Originally Posted by Liquidsnake

Im at 3100

Do I wait? Should I change it right away?
I was going to hold out till 5k.............

I'm old school. I changed mine at 500 miles. You can see earlier in this thread (photo), the amount of metal that fell out of the oil pan when I did the change.
You be the judge.

[Liquidsnake]

Originally Posted by Alienate

I'm old school. I changed mine at 500 miles. You can see earlier in this thread (photo), the amount of metal that fell out of the oil pan when I did the change.
You be the judge.

Appointment made.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Marrk

@bluesubie: "most 0W-20 service fill 0W-20 formulations now do not have Moly."

I thought I saw a Blackstone report on this forum of a first dump UOA that had approx. 750 moly.

Thanks for the info. So, you're going to change out your OEM first fill at 7,500 mi.?

He's calling the dealer oil the "service fill" (when you take your car for service).

I don't own a BRZ, but I'm not sure when I would change it. At first, Subaru said 3,750 for the first oil change on the Foresters that run 0W-20 (due to the timing chain), then they said it wasn't necessary until 7,500 miles. I've actually seen a WRX factory fill that went out to over 5,000 miles and it held up ok, despite shearing to a 20 weight.

Subaru of America is known for changing their mind every three months about oil. They also say goofy things like a WRX can use "5W-40 conventional for replenishment only" even though there's no such thing as 5W-40 conventional. I would probably wait until at least 3,750 miles, but no later than 5k miles.

The oil info in the BRZ owner's manual was probably written by Toyota since it makes sense. SoA even dropped the recommendation of thicker viscosities in severe conditions a couple of years ago.

-Dennis

[Ashley]

Wow after seeing that pic I'm changing my oil ASAP!!! I never had a brand new car before so wouldn't have thought there'd b metal crap in it damn. Thanks for posting that.

[JoeBoxer]

Originally Posted by Ashley

Wow after seeing that pic I'm changing my oil ASAP!!! I never had a brand new car before so wouldn't have thought there'd b metal crap in it damn. Thanks for posting that.

Did my first one today at 3300 miles, used Motul 8100 0w20 and K&N filter based on Crawford's recommendation and very happy with it.