FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[Coheed]

If the 370Z had a back seat, I would be buying it instead. But it doesn't. So I bought a BRZ.

[jonnyozero3]

Originally Posted by Coheed

If the 370Z had a back seat, I would be buying it instead. But it doesn't. So I bought a BRZ.

370Z + Back seat + 400 lbs = G37S Coupe

Bam!

[Honesty]

I always thought the G35 coupe looked better than the G37. Not sure if it weighs any less though. Used G35 coupes are pretty cheap too.

[crazyyankeefan]

Why is this thread still alive...?

[Honesty]

It can never die.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by Coheed

If the 370Z had a back seat, I would be buying it instead. But it doesn't. So I bought a BRZ.

Funny enough, if I had bought a FR-S, first thing I would have done is rip out the back seat

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.

Almost everyone who reviews the car likes how it feels -- but there is also almost unanimous agreement, even by those giving rave reviews, that the car needs more grunt.

Last December, shortly after the media blackout was lifted and reviews started being published, some at NASIOC made similar claims. I'd read the reviews, and knew that most of them weren't saying that... here's my old NASIOC post about it:

Originally Posted by Deslock

You must be reading different reviews than I am. FWIW, here are 18 reviews compiled by ft86club.com, along with quotes about power.

Six of them mention things like it needs more to sustain high speed drifts, isn't neck snapping, it's no sprint champion, could use a bit more top-end, or could use 20-30 more hp.

But all six of those reviews love the car despite those comments and, more to the point, none of the other reviews indicated it could use more power (and many specifically state that it doesn't need more).

1. http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/dr...013-subaru-brz
"pulls strongly"

2. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...13_subaru_brz/
"needs more power to sustain high speed drifts", "Power is not neck-snapping, but the car has just enough to make it exceptionally responsive"

3. http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...ubaru_brz.html
"first impressions are good – very good. The BRZ doesn’t feel particularly rapid in a straight line – the naturally aspirated motor needs to be thrashed to deliver its best"

4. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review
"the BRZ doesn’t need more power"
"Crushing” is not a descriptor we’d employ for the acceleration, although we estimate a 0-to-60-mph time of around six seconds flat with the six-speed manual"

5. http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...IEWS/111209982
"a nice, progressive power curve"

6. http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...brz/index.html
"The BRZ is a delightfully fun car; a complete package that combines light weight and great handling with just enough power to have fun -- but not too much that you can only enjoy it for three seconds at a time."
"For all the Internet armchair warriors complaining about the meager power output, let us be the first to say: the BRZ doesn’t need a turbo."

7. http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/05/2...-drive-review/
"Two hundred horsepower is enough for the sub-2,700-pound coupe, with the urgent-enough grunt, plentiful road feedback and engine noises making it feel like things were happening, but we wouldn't complain about more"
"it needs nothing else. Except maybe a little more power, because we're greedy like that."

8. http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/toyo...-review/260328
"What’s it like to drive? For once ‘inspirational’ is not too strong a word. The GT 86 is not about how fast you go – its on-paper performance is merely average – but rather how you go fast. Compared with the sometimes aurally dull turbocharged cars that pepper this class, the off-beat thrum of the flat-four engine provides a welcome change for the better."

9. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2373
"It delivers the kind of fun that you can't have in more powerful machinery. I know it sounds strange to say something like this but while you scare yourself silly in cars with tons of power you can concentrate on ringing the absolute maximum out of the 86"

10. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...86-review.html
"While the power delivery is flat, this little car flies"

11. http://www.insideline.com/toyota/86/...rst-drive.html
"Its relatively low power means it's no sprint champion, and the 0-62-mph time is estimated at a modest 7.0 seconds" (note: on the high side for estimates)

12. http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...ota_gt_86.html
No direct comment on power, but a quote from GT 86 development engineer Yoshi Sasaki: "the GT 86 is for those who are bored with cars that are too powerful with their turbo engines"
"This is how a proper sporting coupé should be"

13. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2070
"the platform will accept more power, but based on our sampling, it doesn't need it"

14. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2644
"It produces 147kW of power, which is respectable when you consider a VW Golf GTI manages just an extra 8kW by turbocharging its 2.0-litre capacity"

15. http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and..._drive_review/
"Lively. That's the first thing I feel at the wheel of the 86."
"Underway, the car pulls well enough."

16. http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...111129934/1291
"lively pick-up"

17. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...yota_gt86.html
"could use a bit more punch at the top end"
"This car is a blast to drive and will without doubt inject some much-needed adrenalin to a lacklustre line-up. But we can’t help think that enthusiasts and tuners around the world will want more power"

18. http://www.7tune.com/driven-the-new-toyota-86/
"an epic little machine that will amaze you when you get behind the wheel"
"Honestly, if you’re worried about the “power” of the car, don’t be; 200ps ( as a starting point ) is just enough for the car."
"Actually, I say it could do with about 20 to 30hp more but that’s easily achievable with some basic exhaust and engine mods from the catalog or from the raft of aftermarket modifications that are surely coming for the car during 2012 and 2013."
"Power is meaningless in a chassis made from rubbish and this one is made from pure driving ether"

There have been many more reviews since then, but most of the ones I've read also do not state "that the car needs more grunt".

Though it's true that there is almost unanimous agreement by benchracers that the car needs more grunt.

[SUB-FT86]

I am 5'9'' and when I sit in the FRS/BRZ the seats touch the rear seats so IMO its not a 2+2 like my RSX. I agree with Jordo that the backseats would get rip the hell out because they are useless and add unnecessary weight. After you do that the FRS becomes a Z with a 4 cylinder and 500 less lbs.

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I am 5'9'' and when I sit in the FRS/BRZ the seats touch the rear seats so IMO its not a 2+2 like my RSX. I agree with Jordo that the backseats would get rip the hell out because they are useless and add unnecessary weight. After you do that the FRS becomes a Z with a 4 cylinder and 500 less lbs.

Seats are cloth, and foam. they cant weigh more than a couple pounds?

I'm 5'8 and at my settings there is plenty of leg room in the back. You just gotta look out for the foot room... under the seats is pretty crammed.

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I am 5'9'' and when I sit in the FRS/BRZ the seats touch the rear seats so IMO its not a 2+2 like my RSX. I agree with Jordo that the backseats would get rip the hell out because they are useless and add unnecessary weight. After you do that the FRS becomes a Z with a 4 cylinder and 500 less lbs.

Boy I love the RSX. I had one until I accidentally racked it. It was truly a great car. Honda really need to start to make things like that again.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I am 5'9'' and when I sit in the FRS/BRZ the seats touch the rear seats so IMO its not a 2+2 like my RSX. I agree with Jordo that the backseats would get rip the hell out because they are useless and add unnecessary weight. After you do that the FRS becomes a Z with a 4 cylinder and 500 less lbs.

This is anecdotal, but I'm 5'9" with a 31" inseam, and my 7 year old fits behind me just fine in my normal driving position. Today I drove 60 miles round trip with 4 people (kids in the back) and everyone was quite comfortable (though after the first 30 miles trip, one of the antsy kids was ready to get out and stretch).

It's better than I expected actually... when I first sat in the car in the showroom, it seemed that my natural driving position would be too far back for even a kid to sit behind me. But when I actually drove the car, I found the seat to be more comfortable forward a bit from that.

And even if the driver is tall enough to push the seat all the way back, only an especially-taller-than-average adult would need to push the front-passenger-seat back too far for a child to fit in the right-rear seat. So this car can comfortably handle most combinations one adult plus two children or two adults plus one child (and if the driver is average height/inseam - like me, then another child can fit as well).

Furthermore, headroom is pretty crappy back there, but you can fit an adult in the passenger-side rear seat for a short trip. So three adults plus one child is doable in a pinch. Even four adults is possible, but obviously that'd suck in this car.

The point is, blanket statements about the rear seat being useless are asinine.

BTW, for those of you that want faster acceleration: 403 whp (NASIOC thread with additional graphs and photos)

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Deslock

This is anecdotal, but I'm 5'9" with a 31" inseam, and my 7 year old fits behind me just fine in my normal driving position. Today I drove 60 miles round trip with 4 people (kids in the back) and everyone was quite comfortable (though after the first 30 miles trip, one of the antsy kids was ready to get out and stretch).

It's better than I expected actually... when I first sat in the car in the showroom, it seemed that my natural driving position would be too far back for even a kid to sit behind me. But when I actually drove the car, I found the seat to be more comfortable forward a bit from that.

And even if the driver is tall enough to push the seat all the way back, only an especially-taller-than-average adult would need to push the front-passenger-seat back too far for a child to fit in the right-rear seat. So this car can comfortably handle most combinations one adult plus two children or two adults plus one child (and if the driver is average height/inseam - like me, then another child can fit as well).

Furthermore, headroom is pretty crappy back there, but you can fit an adult in the passenger-side rear seat for a short trip. So three adults plus one child is doable in a pinch. Even four adults is possible, but obviously that'd suck in this car.

The point is, blanket statements about the rear seat being useless are asinine.

BTW, for those of you that want faster acceleration: 403 whp (NASIOC thread with additional graphs and photos)

You probably sit a lot closer to the steering wheel. I don't like the wheel in my face as I would feel uncomfortable and it would be a massive deal breaker.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You probably sit a lot closer to the steering wheel. I don't like the wheel in my face as I would feel uncomfortable and it would be a massive deal breaker.

*shrug*

I don't at all feel the wheel is in my face. In fact, unless I'm at autox, I like the steering wheel to be far from me and I keep my legs in a relaxed horizontal position (I haven't autoxed the BRZ yet, but I had to pull the seat up in my previous cars and I expect to in this one as well).

Out of curiosity, when you drove the FT86, how far did you tilt the seat and in what (front/back) position did you put the telescoping wheel?

I keep my BRZ's wheel in the middle position, and I'm still pretty far away from it. If my seat was any farther back than my normal position, it wouldn't be comfortable to shift or operate the pedals (for purposes of comparison, I drive my wife's Prius with the seat all the way back).

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Deslock

*shrug*

I don't at all feel the wheel is in my face. In fact, unless I'm at autox, I like the steering wheel to be far from me and I keep my legs in a relaxed horizontal position (I haven't autoxed the BRZ yet, but I had to pull the seat up in my previous cars and I expect to in this one as well).

Out of curiosity, when you drove the FT86, how far did you tilt the seat and in what (front/back) position did you put the telescoping wheel?

I keep my BRZ's wheel in the middle position, and I'm still pretty far away from it. If my seat was any farther back than my normal position, it wouldn't be comfortable to shift or operate the pedals (for purposes of comparison, I drive my wife's Prius with the seat all the way back).

I think the steering wheel was back to its furthest setting from me. As soon as I sat in the car I had to make adjustments as the steering wheel felt about 12 inches to close to me. I like to be able to extend my arms and not bend them like I see a lot of people do. Also when I am more closer to the wheel braking feels more unnatural as I press the brakes more harder than needed.