How necessary is alignment after installing new springs?

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by empower-auto

Geez. Just burn your wallet man.

I have no choice. No table/vice. No jack/stands. No room to store all that. No helper to bleed brakes if necessary. But mostly no time.

[switchlanez]

Nevermind I think I found the specs:

Front Alignment:
OE Camber = 0.00 deg (+/-0.75 deg)
OE Caster = 5.9 deg (+/-0.00 deg)
OE Total Toe = 0.0 deg (+/-0.18 deg)

Rear Alignment:
OE Camber = -1.25 +/-0.75 deg.
OE Total Toe = 0.12 deg. +/-0.18 deg

[alexmotrix]

Originally Posted by empower-auto

Depends really..

If you read, for example, the Eibach Pro-Kit alignment specs for before and after install - you really don't have to adjust anything on a new, straight, car.

Wrong, the specs won't change but the measurements will be different, the alignment shop will have to adjust them and while you're getting your springs replaced, get them to replace the front upper bolts to adjustable ones, they will need those to get your car to the specs

[Racecomp Engineering]

One of the issues is....forgot the OEM specs, they stink. So it may be "within range of OEM" but you can do a lot better if you add the 10 dollar factory camber bolts.

And my goodness that's an expensive spring install. Make a weekend trip somewhere else, stay overnight, have a fancy dinner and you'll still come out way ahead.

- Andrew

[d1ck]

When you lower the car you're obviously changing the ride height. As the suspension moves through it's range of motion the toe and camber will change due to the design of the suspension. This is done purposely by the engineers who designed the car. For example: As the rear suspension is compressed the wheel camber will decrease to give you more rear end grip when turning.

When you lower the car you're essentially putting the suspension in a place where it's only meant to be when cornering / going over bumps. When in this area the settings could lead to quicker tire waer.

[empower-auto]

Originally Posted by alexmotrix

Wrong, the specs won't change but the measurements will be different, the alignment shop will have to adjust them and while you're getting your springs replaced, get them to replace the front upper bolts to adjustable ones, they will need those to get your car to the specs

Uh .. is that supposed to be cryptic or something? The specs won't change but the measurements will?

Get outta here

[alexmotrix]

Originally Posted by empower-auto

Uh .. is that supposed to be cryptic or something? The specs won't change but the measurements will?

Get outta here

As much as I know, the spec is what the maker (subaru) asked their production line to set the car, the measurements, for me, is the readings we get on the car when the alignment heads are on the car

[empower-auto]

Originally Posted by alexmotrix

As much as I know, the spec is what the maker (subaru) asked their production line to set the car, the measurements, for me, is the readings we get on the car when the alignment heads are on the car

Well of course it won't be exact to "spec" ... but "spec" isn't the only thing that works.

My Soarer is so GD far from "spec" it's insane but it's great!

[alexmotrix]

I will get my car aligned by Friday, I will scan the data sheet to MY specs ( probably around 1.5 deg front camber ) than I will post those with my impressions, I did drop with Tein H Tech and installed subaru upper camber bolts

[switchlanez]

UPDATE:

In regards to the high quote... it's 1.5 hrs per corner to install springs so the quote is based on hourly labor rate x 6 hrs. Regardless of whether it takes a veteran 3 hrs or a n00b 8 hrs to do the same job, all techs get clocked for 6 hrs all the same (across all Subaru dealerships). I couldn't bargain down the 6 hrs but did apply a coupon and I talked the hourly rate down to total $530 before alignment and tax.

Alignment even after a modest drop should be needed... *theoretically*. I used to accept this as truth because everyone like the first few posters here says alignment is always needed. So I always used to pay that extra $90 for alignment (which costs "nothing" as some of you call it) without question. But who honestly thinks the tech will take time to tell your service invoice writer, "BTW I checked that car's alignment and didn't need to make adjustments so you can take that item off the invoice." Never.

Anyway, after they installed the springs they checked my alignment afterwards because I asked them to check but not do the alignment. Lo and behold... IT WAS STILL WITHIN SPEC after the drop. No camber bolts, no nothing needed. For the 3RD TIME IN A ROW for me *in practice* an alignment wasn't needed.

[artizhay]

Well okay...I lowered my Celica 2" back in my younger years when I was like, "ooh! A low car! How fun! Alignment? Psh!"

And so over time, my alignment is totally fucked to the point that my steering wheel was noticeably, but slightly, turned when driving straight. Then 2 years later, I get a flat tire.

I assumed it was from construction work around my house, but I get to NTB and the entire inner half of my front tires are down to wires, while the outer half is just balding. So there's literally a 3-4mm change in rubber height right in the middle of my tires.

Another year or so later, I notice my back tires are wearing and they look super negatively cambered. Dunno why it's been several years, but they are starting to wear fast and changing the rear suspension is not possible on a stock Celica. So I had to pick up some camber links to fix the rear.

So getting an alignment after dropping? Fuck yeah. And I don't know how adjustable the rear camber is on the BRZ, but you'll definitely want to look into camber links.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by artizhay

Well okay...I lowered my Celica 2" back in my younger years when I was like, "ooh! A low car! How fun! Alignment? Psh!"

And so over time, my alignment is totally fucked to the point that my steering wheel was noticeably, but slightly, turned when driving straight. And so 2 years later, I get a flat tire.

I assumed it was from construction work around my house, but I get to NTB and the entire inner half of my front tires are down to wires, while the outer half is just balding. So there's literally a 3-4mm change in rubber height right in the middle of my tires.

Another year or so later, I notice my back tires are wearing and they look super negatively cambered. Dunno why it's been several years, but they are starting to wear fast and changing the rear suspension is not possible on a stock Celica. So I had to pick up some camber links to fix the rear.

So getting an alignment after dropping? Fuck yeah. And I don't know how adjustable the rear camber is on the BRZ, but you'll definitely want to look into camber links.

Throughout this thread I've been asking if it's necessary for a mild drop. My drop is only 15mm (0.6").

I also had a Celica with 1.5" drop TRD springs/shocks. I did an alignment back then. But since then all my subsequent cars have only had moderate drops or just straight OEM spring/strut replacement and alignment stayed within spec/wasn't needed. And slight correction to my previous post... alignment stayed within spec after installation for my MR2 Spyder on TRD springs/shocks, MkII MR2 on TRD springs/shocks, G35 on stock shocks/springs, and now BRZ on STI springs/stock shocks so this actually marks the FOURTH time in a row an alignment wasn't needed after a mild-to-no drop in height.

[dj petey]

An alignment is actually recommended off the showroom floor, after a spring install, and every 12 months because of the allowable tolerances. The factory tolerances are horribly large meaning that you can drive your car off the lot with -0.5 camber on the driver front and +0.7 camber on the passenger front and you'd still "be in spec", and technically not need an alignment. however this alignment config is terribly bad from a handling perspective. In this same example we then proceed to drop your car .6" and the alignment settles at -0.75 camber driver side and +0.75 passenger, and you're still "within spec" but having a total camber of 1.5. Obviously this is a worst case scenario but you get the concept. From a practical standpoint most will wait till they install springs in order to get the alignment to it's correct 0 camber setting +/- .05 but if you never install springs you'd still benefit from an alignment that corrects to within +/- 0.05 of manufacturer spec.

From a business standpoint, the manufacturer specifies the tolerance as the least noticeable variance that will result in the warranty remaining untouched while allowing the factory technicians to align the most number of vehicles in the least amount of time in order to meet ship windows.

[gmookher]

needed.