FRS HID lights?

[tonnygarden]

FR-S HID lights have greater output of life and cover the maximum road from the lights due to the fact that they are brighter than BR-Z lights. That's why I think that FR-S HID lights are better than BR-Z lights.

[tonystewart]

From Experience
The new theretrofitsource.com Morimoto Retro Quick kit does a much better job than the stock halogen projector, with or without a HID kit.
That is the only comparison available until someone retrofits a different BiXenon Projector into the headlight assembly of the FRS.
I wonder what an FX-R 3.0 would do in this car or the TL's with their output

[SuperDave]

Originally Posted by DaJoian

Taking all the standard features the Subaru offers compared to Scion into account; it would definitely cut cost for Scion, and in turn...cheaper MSRP for us.

Scion sell you the bare bones of the vehicle for an affordable price, and then they offer aftermarket/add-on packages for your own customization. I agree Scion should at least have an option for the HIDs as factory add-on, but I guess that's why Subaru is also in the market with its twin sister.

this is why i'm like "fuck Scion!" Sell us the car under the Toyota banner,

give us the proper name of the car GT 86, and all the options like Subaru has.
this is precisely the reason i've chosen to go with the BRZ, i want my Hid Headlights, fog lights, press start ignition. I want a 21st century car.

Fuck you Scion.

[rice_classic]

Kind of reminds me of this.

[SuperDave]

where did you get that photo of me?

[bneale]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

this is why i'm like "fuck Scion!" Sell us the car under the Toyota banner,

give us the proper name of the car GT 86, and all the options like Subaru has.
this is precisely the reason i've chosen to go with the BRZ, i want my Hid Headlights, fog lights, press start ignition. I want a 21st century car.

Fuck you Scion.

Seeing posts like this makes me proud I bought a Scion. I LOL'd at "21st century car". Seriously, we should all just learn to accept the differences. We don't need to be saying "fuck Scion" and all that crap.

I for one like the Scion simply because its more of a pure car without the un-needed extras. I don't really need the fancy extra toys of the Subaru and I really didn't want to spend more. The difference in price plus tax alone would have pushed the car up about 5000 bucks for me. I'm glad Toyota gave us a cheaper alternative as I probably won't be driving the FR-S if it cost any more money. It's not like the Toy's do anything for what people think of the car anyway. I've had someone think my car was worth over 50K before.

I'm not even going to comment on the Toyota / Scion badging thing. What your doing is simply whining.


The best part about owning a an FR-S for me compared to the BRZ (which don't get me wrong, I don't hate on the BRZ owners at all. That would be ignorant of me ) is the Scion Racing contingency program. This isn't offered to BRZ owners!

You tell me, which other car company out there right now pays you to go racing in your own car?? I'll be waiting with my $250 bucks in hand!




bneale

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by bneale

Seeing posts like this makes me proud I bought a Scion. I LOL'd at "21st century car". Seriously, we should all just learn to accept the differences. We don't need to be saying "fuck Scion" and all that crap.

I for one like the Scion simply because its more of a pure car without the un-needed extras. I don't really need the fancy extra toys of the Subaru and I really didn't want to spend more. The difference in price plus tax alone would have pushed the car up about 5000 bucks for me. I'm glad Toyota gave us a cheaper alternative as I probably won't be driving the FR-S if it cost any more money. It's not like the Toy's do anything for what people think of the car anyway. I've had someone think my car was worth over 50K before.

I'm not even going to comment on the Toyota / Scion badging thing. What your doing is simply whining.


The best part about owning a an FR-S for me compared to the BRZ (which don't get me wrong, I don't hate on the BRZ owners at all. That would be ignorant of me ) is the Scion Racing contingency program. This isn't offered to BRZ owners!

You tell me, which other car company out there right now pays you to go racing in your own car?? I'll be waiting with my $250 bucks in hand!




bneale

Seeing posts like this makes me shake my head at the complete ignorance.

Fine, you don't need fancy gizmos and gadgets. If the car was a Toyota, as it should have been, you would have been able to purchase the cheaper G86, since Toyota has trim levels.

The G86 is essentially the FR-S with even less features and gadgets (plain black pedals instead of the aluminum, 16" wheels instead of the 17", the plain black tach seen in the BRZ, etc). So you probably would have been able to get one cheaper than the FR-S. The rest of us, who wanted the gadgets and gizmos, could have purchased the higher trims (GT 86 and GT 86 Limited) and paid more. Heck, you might have even been able to get the RC 86 which is running steelies, has no dash materials, no speakers, etc. The true stripped down version and cheaper still. If you still wanted what the FR-S currently has, you could have optioned out the G86 to the FR-S spec, as that's what an FR-S is, a G86 with most of the options.

Seriously, Scion hasn't done anything great for this car or Toyota's fans. They've pigeon holed it and everyone interested. Worse yet, they've stripped it of the very legacy they say it's from. To the point of stripping it's 86 name too, even though they kept a single 86 badge. Which still doesn't make sense to me. Why keep one if you're getting rid of all the others? Why not keep them all?

Don't give me the Subaru BRZ is available garbage either, this is the only continent that is in this situation. Every other continent that sells the cars has both cars, in both low and high spec versions. They all come from the same factory as well, so the parts are all still being made, so offering them to two more countries won't make a difference in cost, if anything it'd make it cheaper. Why? They'd be doing even more volume production and wouldn't have to make Scion badges and FR-S badges, floor mats, air bags, etc for a single market area. That, is what truly brings up the price. Making something specific for a single area, instead of keeping things the same.

[bneale]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

Seeing posts like this makes me shake my head at the complete ignorance.

Fine, you don't need fancy gizmos and gadgets. If the car was a Toyota, as it should have been, you would have been able to purchase the cheaper G86, since Toyota has trim levels.

The G86 is essentially the FR-S with even less features and gadgets (plain black pedals instead of the aluminum, 16" wheels instead of the 17", the plain black tach seen in the BRZ, etc). So you probably would have been able to get one cheaper than the FR-S. The rest of us, who wanted the gadgets and gizmos, could have purchased the higher trims (GT 86 and GT 86 Limited) and paid more. Heck, you might have even been able to get the RC 86 which is running steelies, has no dash materials, no speakers, etc. The true stripped down version and cheaper still. If you still wanted what the FR-S currently has, you could have optioned out the G86 to the FR-S spec, as that's what an FR-S is, a G86 with most of the options.

Seriously, Scion hasn't done anything great for this car or Toyota's fans. They've pigeon holed it and everyone interested. Worse yet, they've stripped it of the very legacy they say it's from. To the point of stripping it's 86 name too, even though they kept a single 86 badge. Which still doesn't make sense to me. Why keep one if you're getting rid of all the others? Why not keep them all?

Don't give me the Subaru BRZ is available garbage either, this is the only continent that is in this situation. Every other continent that sells the cars has both cars, in both low and high spec versions. They all come from the same factory as well, so the parts are all still being made, so offering them to two more countries won't make a difference in cost, if anything it'd make it cheaper. Why? They'd be doing even more volume production and wouldn't have to make Scion badges and FR-S badges, floor mats, air bags, etc for a single market area. That, is what truly brings up the price. Making something specific for a single area, instead of keeping things the same.

This entire post still smacks of whining to me. Basically it sounds like your just complaining that you're not allowed to buy a GT86 because you live in North America. That is of course entirely true and valid.

But you can't honestly tell me tha you expected Toyota to actually not sell this under its Scion brand? It only makes good business sense to boost the brand by selling it as a Scion. Think back to the days of the MR-S or Supra RZ, Scion didn't exist back then. I would bet though that if it did, they would have sold them badged as Scion just as they are doing now with the FR-S. The Prius, Camery, Corolla, Sienna, even the Yaris, all of these cars are selling for Toyota in North America. Why not spread the wealth between brands?

This brings me back to why Scion even exists in the first place. Scion was always about branding Toyota cars so that young people like you and me would buy them. The idea of a monospec trim level is enharent to the brand itself based on the idea that youth would want to "personalize" the car themselves. The monospec trim level is purely to keep the car cost down. Again this is to generate buying interest from us young buyers who don't have much money but still want a full working car (you know things like painted bumpers and a working stereo). A super base trim level might work for the Japanese market but I doubt it will work with the North American market. The buyers are just not the same types of people at all.


For all the bad things you can say about Scion, tell me 1 other car company (or brand) that actively wants you to accessorize/mod your car? I mean ACTIVELY promotes it? What other car company actually pays you to race your car?

It really sounds to me like your just straight whining about not being able to buy a GT86. Especially when you comment about "removing the GT86 badges". You of all people (just because your on here) should know an FR-S and BRZ are just as much a new version of the AE86. But have you ever asked an average amercian person if they know what a Toyota AE86 is? Have you then asked if they know what a Corolla is? Of course they know what a Corrolla is because they identify the car differently. I realize they could have just sold this car as the "GT86" under the Scion badge, but thats not how Toyota does things (same with most car companies. Look at the MX-5 / Miata name. Or Mazda 3 and Axela). They simply chose to be different by calling it the "FR-S".


Again, take away the fact that they even sell the GT86 at all and you wouldn't be complainig anywhere near as much. You know the whole "grass is greener" crap! Don't get me wrong, I'm not ignorant to your points or your post. I'm just not living in a dream world either. If you think you should be able to buy a GT86 over here, then you're dreaming!

bneale

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by bneale

This entire post still smacks of whining to me. Basically it sounds like your just complaining that you're not allowed to buy a GT86 because you live in North America. That is of course entirely true and valid.

But you can't honestly tell me tha you expected Toyota to actually not sell this under its Scion brand? It only makes good business sense to boost the brand by selling it as a Scion. Think back to the days of the MR-S or Supra RZ, Scion didn't exist back then. I would bet though that if it did, they would have sold them badged as Scion just as they are doing now with the FR-S. The Prius, Camery, Corolla, Sienna, even the Yaris, all of these cars are selling for Toyota in North America. Why not spread the wealth between brands?

This brings me back to why Scion even exists in the first place. Scion was always about branding Toyota cars so that young people like you and me would buy them. The idea of a monospec trim level is enharent to the brand itself based on the idea that youth would want to "personalize" the car themselves. The monospec trim level is purely to keep the car cost down. Again this is to generate buying interest from us young buyers who don't have much money but still want a full working car (you know things like painted bumpers and a working stereo). A super base trim level might work for the Japanese market but I doubt it will work with the North American market. The buyers are just not the same types of people at all.


For all the bad things you can say about Scion, tell me 1 other car company (or brand) that actively wants you to accessorize/mod your car? I mean ACTIVELY promotes it? What other car company actually pays you to race your car?

It really sounds to me like your just straight whining about not being able to buy a GT86. Especially when you comment about "removing the GT86 badges". You of all people (just because your on here) should know an FR-S and BRZ are just as much a new version of the AE86. But have you ever asked an average amercian person if they know what a Toyota AE86 is? Have you then asked if they know what a Corolla is? Of course they know what a Corrolla is because they identify the car differently. I realize they could have just sold this car as the "GT86" under the Scion badge, but thats not how Toyota does things (same with most car companies. Look at the MX-5 / Miata name. Or Mazda 3 and Axela). They simply chose to be different by calling it the "FR-S".


Again, take away the fact that they even sell the GT86 at all and you wouldn't be complainig anywhere near as much. You know the whole "grass is greener" crap! Don't get me wrong, I'm not ignorant to your points or your post. I'm just not living in a dream world either. If you think you should be able to buy a GT86 over here, then you're dreaming!

bneale

But you can't honestly tell me tha you expected Toyota to actually not sell this under its Scion brand? It only makes good business sense to boost the brand by selling it as a Scion.

I never once, not for a second, expected Toyota to sell the vehicle as a Scion. I 100% expected them to sell it as a Toyota, as Akio Toyoda-san gave his word that a Toyota sports car would be built and sold and he said he wanted to restore Toyota to what it was. The fact that Toyota had been and still is without a sports car for seven years and counting. The fact that this car was built from the history of Toyota's sports car heritage and that was the primary thing it heralded. It makes no sense that they sold it as a Scion. Even at my Toyota dealership, some of the employees have stated that their company has made a mistake by selling it as a Scion. They themselves have been begging Toyota for a sports car to sell as one is needed for Toyota.


Think back to the days of the MR-S or Supra RZ, Scion didn't exist back then. I would bet though that if it did, they would have sold them badged as Scion just as they are doing now with the FR-S.

I have no idea how you think the Supra would have been branded a Scion, if it existed back then. In Canada they sold for 60-80k from dealership, I've heard even higher in some areas of the country. That far exceeds Scion's average of 20k, the FR-S being the most expensive yet at 25k. By your logic, the LFA should have been a Scion. Be realistic now, these cars would not have been Scion branded. The Toyota 86 shouldn't have been either, they're already running into discussions such as the turbo/convertible versions not being sold in N.A. because of price. Toyota wouldn't and doesn't have that issue, only Scion.


The Prius, Camery, Corolla, Sienna, even the Yaris, all of these cars are selling for Toyota in North America. Why not spread the wealth between brands?

Spread the wealth between the brands you say? Yes, why don't we do that. Not a single car you mentioned is a sports car, currently. Toyota hasn't had a sports car for seven years and counting, as I stated. Scion has had and still does have the tC. The 86 was meant to revitalize Toyota and bring back the passion, to Toyota. It is supposed to be the sports car Toyota is lacking. Scion does seem to be lacking a sedan though, they can have the Camry.


This brings me back to why Scion even exists in the first place. Scion was always about branding Toyota cars so that young people like you and me would buy them.

In my case, Scion has failed to sell me. Looks like they screwed up.


The idea of a monospec trim level is enharent to the brand itself based on the idea that youth would want to "personalize" the car themselves. The monospec trim level is purely to keep the car cost down

Ah yes, "personalize" or "customize" to my liking... a vehicle that is single spec so every single one is the same and cannot be changed even if you ask the dealer. I have asked my dealer, they've refused to do any of my requested customizations, regardless of willingness to pay. Guess what, Toyota and every other car maker out there has trim levels and options so you can do just that, customize the car to your tastes and budget. It's been around for decades. Scion claims to have this but in practice they do not. The others don't have to say they have it because it's always been there, Scion makes up B.S. to pull in the saps. There's a reason most vehicle manufactures use trim levels and options instead of monospec, if it didn't make them money, they wouldn't be doing it.


Again this is to generate buying interest from us young buyers who don't have much money but still want a full working car (you know things like painted bumpers and a working stereo).

I have no idea where you get this idea that young means you don't have the money to buy a fully optioned GT86 Limited, if you want to or budget and go for a lower trim G86. I for one bought a 2003 Celica GT-S Toyota Racing Development edition, which is priced similarly to what the GT86 Limited is in other markets. Fancy that. Go figure it was made ten years ago too. Oh, did I mention my Celica, ten years ago, had optional HIDs, fog lights, colour keyed interior, leather seats, no massive, awful, clunky climate controls from a generic parts bin, the Celica was a lift-back so no trunk but I'm pretty sure it would have had a trunk liner. Oh, did I mention the base Celica was about the same if not cheaper than the FR-S? Keep in mind, both the FR-S and Celica have 100hp/L, the Celica is lighter by ~200lbs yet similar power to weight ratios, and both were designed to handle well.

That is correct, a ten year old Toyota is better equipped than the current 2013 Scion FR-S and sold cheaper than it at base. Monospec does not make it cheaper. Especially not in the case of this car, since they're all made in the same plant, the Toyota, the Subaru, and the Scion. Adding the Scion actually increases costs because now they have to setup a third line for Scion specific parts, like badges, air bags, floor mats with the FR-S logo, and it's all for a single market area. You've fallen for a lie.


For all the bad things you can say about Scion, tell me 1 other car company (or brand) that actively wants you to accessorize/mod your car? I mean ACTIVELY promotes it? What other car company actually pays you to race your car?

GM. I can walk into my local GM dealers and not only do they encourage it, but I can't step foot in one without seeing a fair amount of the vehicles on the lot already with accessories and mods on them. Right from the dealership I can order up a vehicle and have them drop in a crate motor, throw on a hennessy kit, GM performance parts, hell I can even request other aftermarket parts. They'll install it all and under warranty, well maybe with exception to some of the aftermarket parts on the warranty, depending on the part but that goes for anyone. GM blows Scion out of the water in this department. They don't have to pay off their fans to get them to do it either, they just do. I think it's sad that Scion has to pay their fans to get them to race their vehicles.


It really sounds to me like your just straight whining about not being able to buy a GT86. Especially when you comment about "removing the GT86 badges". You of all people (just because your on here) should know an FR-S and BRZ are just as much a new version of the AE86. But have you ever asked an average amercian person if they know what a Toyota AE86 is? Have you then asked if they know what a Corolla is? Of course they know what a Corrolla is because they identify the car differently. I realize they could have just sold this car as the "GT86" under the Scion badge, but thats not how Toyota does things (same with most car companies. Look at the MX-5 / Miata name. Or Mazda 3 and Axela). They simply chose to be different by calling it the "FR-S".

What does the average person have to do with a car that was built for the fans of the legend? A car that was meant to reinvigorate Toyota's sports car heritage? It wasn't made for the average person, it doesn't matter what the average person thinks. It wasn't built for them and they wouldn't care what it's called. It was built for people such as myself and SuperDave, who have been Toyota fans all along. People who have driven and are Toyota. Tearing that away can only do one thing and that's insult and hurt those who it has meaning to, those who it was meant for.

I have no idea where you get this idea that this is how Toyota does things. The Supra was the Supra, the Celica was the Celica, the Corolla was the Corolla. Japan, Canada, the U.S., and Europe. I'm not even going to bother asking if you know Toyota's history, as you clearly do not.


Again, take away the fact that they even sell the GT86 at all and you wouldn't be complainig anywhere near as much. You know the whole "grass is greener" crap! Don't get me wrong, I'm not ignorant to your points or your post. I'm just not living in a dream world either. If you think you should be able to buy a GT86 over here, then you're dreaming!

You're not even trying. Of course I wouldn't be complaining if you took away the fact that they sell the GT86 at all, it wouldn't exist to complain about! However, I'd be back to complaining that Toyota is missing a sports car, which I'm still doing. The GT86 exists everywhere else in the world, you are telling me I shouldn't expect to be able to see it here? One of Toyota's biggest markets? Are you familiar with logic? I think it escapes you.

[RidetheTran]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

But you can't honestly tell me tha you expected Toyota to actually not sell this under its Scion brand? It only makes good business sense to boost the brand by selling it as a Scion.

I never once, not for a second, expected Toyota to sell the vehicle as a Scion. I 100% expected them to sell it as a Toyota, as Akio Toyoda-san gave his word that a Toyota sports car would be built and sold and he said he wanted to restore Toyota to what it was. The fact that Toyota had been and still is without a sports car for seven years and counting. The fact that this car was built from the history of Toyota's sports car heritage and that was the primary thing it heralded. It makes no sense that they sold it as a Scion. Even at my Toyota dealership, some of the employees have stated that their company has made a mistake by selling it as a Scion. They themselves have been begging Toyota for a sports car to sell as one is needed for Toyota.


Think back to the days of the MR-S or Supra RZ, Scion didn't exist back then. I would bet though that if it did, they would have sold them badged as Scion just as they are doing now with the FR-S.

I have no idea how you think the Supra would have been branded a Scion, if it existed back then. In Canada they sold for 60-80k from dealership, I've heard even higher in some areas of the country. That far exceeds Scion's average of 20k, the FR-S being the most expensive yet at 25k. By your logic, the LFA should have been a Scion. Be realistic now, these cars would not have been Scion branded. The Toyota 86 shouldn't have been either, they're already running into discussions such as the turbo/convertible versions not being sold in N.A. because of price. Toyota wouldn't and doesn't have that issue, only Scion.


The Prius, Camery, Corolla, Sienna, even the Yaris, all of these cars are selling for Toyota in North America. Why not spread the wealth between brands?

Spread the wealth between the brands you say? Yes, why don't we do that. Not a single car you mentioned is a sports car, currently. Toyota hasn't had a sports car for seven years and counting, as I stated. Scion has had and still does have the tC. The 86 was meant to revitalize Toyota and bring back the passion, to Toyota. It is supposed to be the sports car Toyota is lacking. Scion does seem to be lacking a sedan though, they can have the Camry.


This brings me back to why Scion even exists in the first place. Scion was always about branding Toyota cars so that young people like you and me would buy them.

In my case, Scion has failed to sell me. Looks like they screwed up.


The idea of a monospec trim level is enharent to the brand itself based on the idea that youth would want to "personalize" the car themselves. The monospec trim level is purely to keep the car cost down

Ah yes, "personalize" or "customize" to my liking... a vehicle that is single spec so every single one is the same and cannot be changed even if you ask the dealer. I have asked my dealer, they've refused to do any of my requested customizations, regardless of willingness to pay. Guess what, Toyota and every other car maker out there has trim levels and options so you can do just that, customize the car to your tastes and budget. It's been around for decades. Scion claims to have this but in practice they do not. The others don't have to say they have it because it's always been there, Scion makes up B.S. to pull in the saps. There's a reason most vehicle manufactures use trim levels and options instead of monospec, if it didn't make them money, they wouldn't be doing it.


Again this is to generate buying interest from us young buyers who don't have much money but still want a full working car (you know things like painted bumpers and a working stereo).

I have no idea where you get this idea that young means you don't have the money to buy a fully optioned GT86 Limited, if you want to or budget and go for a lower trim G86. I for one bought a 2003 Celica GT-S Toyota Racing Development edition, which is priced similarly to what the GT86 Limited is in other markets. Fancy that. Go figure it was made ten years ago too. Oh, did I mention my Celica, ten years ago, had optional HIDs, fog lights, colour keyed interior, leather seats, no massive, awful, clunky climate controls from a generic parts bin, the Celica was a lift-back so no trunk but I'm pretty sure it would have had a trunk liner. Oh, did I mention the base Celica was about the same if not cheaper than the FR-S? Keep in mind, both the FR-S and Celica have 100hp/L, the Celica is lighter by ~200lbs yet similar power to weight ratios, and both were designed to handle well.

That is correct, a ten year old Toyota is better equipped than the current 2013 Scion FR-S and sold cheaper than it at base. Monospec does not make it cheaper. Especially not in the case of this car, since they're all made in the same plant, the Toyota, the Subaru, and the Scion. Adding the Scion actually increases costs because now they have to setup a third line for Scion specific parts, like badges, air bags, floor mats with the FR-S logo, and it's all for a single market area. You've fallen for a lie.


For all the bad things you can say about Scion, tell me 1 other car company (or brand) that actively wants you to accessorize/mod your car? I mean ACTIVELY promotes it? What other car company actually pays you to race your car?

GM. I can walk into my local GM dealers and not only do they encourage it, but I can't step foot in one without seeing a fair amount of the vehicles on the lot already with accessories and mods on them. Right from the dealership I can order up a vehicle and have them drop in a crate motor, throw on a hennessy kit, GM performance parts, hell I can even request other aftermarket parts. They'll install it all and under warranty, well maybe with exception to some of the aftermarket parts on the warranty, depending on the part but that goes for anyone. GM blows Scion out of the water in this department. They don't have to pay off their fans to get them to do it either, they just do. I think it's sad that Scion has to pay their fans to get them to race their vehicles.


It really sounds to me like your just straight whining about not being able to buy a GT86. Especially when you comment about "removing the GT86 badges". You of all people (just because your on here) should know an FR-S and BRZ are just as much a new version of the AE86. But have you ever asked an average amercian person if they know what a Toyota AE86 is? Have you then asked if they know what a Corolla is? Of course they know what a Corrolla is because they identify the car differently. I realize they could have just sold this car as the "GT86" under the Scion badge, but thats not how Toyota does things (same with most car companies. Look at the MX-5 / Miata name. Or Mazda 3 and Axela). They simply chose to be different by calling it the "FR-S".

What does the average person have to do with a car that was built for the fans of the legend? A car that was meant to reinvigorate Toyota's sports car heritage? It wasn't made for the average person, it doesn't matter what the average person thinks. It wasn't built for them and they wouldn't care what it's called. It was built for people such as myself and SuperDave, who have been Toyota fans all along. People who have driven and are Toyota. Tearing that away can only do one thing and that's insult and hurt those who it has meaning to, those who it was meant for.

I have no idea where you get this idea that this is how Toyota does things. The Supra was the Supra, the Celica was the Celica, the Corolla was the Corolla. Japan, Canada, the U.S., and Europe. I'm not even going to bother asking if you know Toyota's history, as you clearly do not.


Again, take away the fact that they even sell the GT86 at all and you wouldn't be complainig anywhere near as much. You know the whole "grass is greener" crap! Don't get me wrong, I'm not ignorant to your points or your post. I'm just not living in a dream world either. If you think you should be able to buy a GT86 over here, then you're dreaming!

You're not even trying. Of course I wouldn't be complaining if you took away the fact that they sell the GT86 at all, it wouldn't exist to complain about! However, I'd be back to complaining that Toyota is missing a sports car, which I'm still doing. The GT86 exists everywhere else in the world, you are telling me I shouldn't expect to be able to see it here? One of Toyota's biggest markets? Are you familiar with logic? I think it escapes you.

THANK YOU SABER! Reading Bneale's post was starting to get frustrating. You argued every point that I had a problem with and you couldn't have said it better.

My family has had seven Toyota cars go in and out of our garage and we're still driving four at the moment. I've been following the FR-S when it first started out as the FT-HS in 2007 when I was a teen. Never thought it would get past the concept stage but still I believed Toyota was heading in the right direction. The day I heard that they will be releasing the Gt86 as a Scion FRS in America, my heart sank low knowing that I'll be forced to by a Scion, not a Toyota. There's just something with the Toyota name that I trust and grown to love. I first learned how to drive in my dads 1986 Toyota Camry, I learned how to drive stick in a Toyota MR-2 and I sure as hell want the first car I buy on my own to be a Toyota sport car, which I wished since 2007 to be the GT-86. But now I'm going to have to settle for a Scion FR-S.

Don't get me wrong, Scion is alright in my book, but I've always seen them as a second rate company. They market themselves as a company for kids who rice out their cars. I remember watching a movie at the theaters when the brand was introduced and one of the commercials was a "scion gathering". It was full of riced out xb's, tc's, and xa's. To make it worse, people were laughing at the commercial. The scion brand is a laughing stock to enthusiast and even normal people. My GF, who mind you knows very little about cars, is telling me to badge the car was a Toyota if I buy the FR-S ...and thats saying a lot.

I understand the marketing move to boost sales and bring back the Scion brand. But at least back up your "accessorizing/mod" brand by actually GIVING us accessories. I'm sure I speak for a lot of people on this forum when I say Scion should have offered an option to buy HID ready headlights, Push Start option, or HVAC option after the release of the FR-S. I don't care the price they would have offered it as long as they gave us the option to "accessorize" our cars. Now we have to order online and get it shipped from Europe or Japan...Scion dropped the ball on this when they obviously could be making money. If these accessories would've been an option, I might not be jumping back and forth between a BRZ or FR-S.

I firmly believe the FR-S did not get the respect it deserved by the folks at Scion who came up with the brilliant idea of bring the GT86 under the Scion brand. It was built out of passion and Toyota's heritage...it belongs under the Toyota brand with all of the other amazing Toyota sports car before it, not under Scion where there is absolutely NO HERITAGE.

[mines13]

A badge will never keep me from a good car... I am having a blast with my Scion, and personally, I like how they equipped the car. We get the most car per dollar out of any of the markets it is sold in. No complaints from me on that front. To each his own I guess.

[noahsmith]

HID lights Provides 3 times more clarity while driving. 4300K is safe in comparison to other varieties of HID as its color matches to day light it won't make anybody blind .

[tripjammer]

HIDs will be standard in the 2014 model. You just wait and see...

[Leonardo]

I have HID's installed in the high beams. They are a 35watt kit. The stock plug plugged right into the ballast. no fuss install. The LED Daytime running lights are 9 watts each. I deactivated the half high beam DRL. I use my high beams on my 25 mile rural drive home. I love the technicolor look they have at night. Oh hello Mr. Deer. lol.