Dyno Numbers

[Lantanafrs2]

Same type of dyno with same compressed graph.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by drift86

I'm excited to see this torque dip. It tells me the car is still choked by the headers for emission reasons and that some catless headers + tune should make healthy gains just like the first gen.

You'd rather have to expend time/money/effort to get rid of "torque dip", than to just not have it in the stock setup?

I installed a catless header and got custom tune for my car this year due to arms race in my time-trialing class. After $$$$ and effort wriggling around under the car, while making it technically non-compliant with emissions regs, eliminated the torque dip. I would have *vastly* preferred just not having the dip in the first place!

[Lantanafrs2]

Maybe they had the parking brake on

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Maybe they had the parking brake on

Right in that RPM range to simulate that torque dip. Such a beautiful dip it is. Some day it's going to be a legendary dip that people will appreciate when they sit in their EV and it pulls flat-even the whole way.

[Lantanafrs2]

I dont trust that graph. I think it will look smoother on a dyno jet. I've seen some compressed charts that accentuate everything which can be great when you're selling parts.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

I dont trust that graph. I think it will look smoother on a dyno jet. I've seen some compressed charts that accentuate everything which can be great when you're selling parts.

I think it's a perfectly trustworthy graph, far more than a dyno jet will prove to be. People just hate seeing the reality of more accurate dyno's. It looks pretty identical to the first gen as I linked earlier. But a couple things to keep in mind is that the dip is not as broad in gen2 and that the overall torque is higher in gen2 - so the % loss of torque isn't as bad as it was in gen1.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by ZDan

You'd rather have to expend time/money/effort to get rid of "torque dip", than to just not have it in the stock setup?

I installed a catless header and got custom tune for my car this year due to arms race in my time-trialing class. After $$$$ and effort wriggling around under the car, while making it technically non-compliant with emissions regs, eliminated the torque dip. I would have *vastly* preferred just not having the dip in the first place!

I am pretty sure that's not his point. His point, I believe, is that it is evidence of the fact that a simple header change and tune (which most of us are more than willing to do given cost/value prop) will likely yield similar gains on the new car. And that is indeed good news, at least to this potential 2022+ buyer, as it means that maybe, just maybe, that car with just those simple mods will be enough for me not to yearn for FI (which is definitely somewhere I would prefer not to go).

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

I am pretty sure that's not his point. His point, I believe, is that it is evidence of the fact that a simple header change and tune (which most of us are more than willing to do given cost/value prop) will likely yield similar gains on the new car.

?????

You're repeating exactly the same point: *glad* there's a torque dip because that means you can spend time and $$$$ and effort to eradicate it (while making car illegal).

How on earth is that *better* than simply not having a torque dip (or having a more minimal one) in the 1st place?

I'd way way WAY rather see torque/power curves more similar to the graphs on the info screen we've seen...

[Blighty]

It will be really interesting to see more dynos.

Interesting that the values in this one suggest its lost 20% hp, and 11% tq through the drivetrain. (remember this is the 231hp JDM).

The tq peak is quite a bit earlier than the manufacturer suggest as well.

Are there any issues from dynoing it with 13kms (before its very initial break in)?

Also I wonder what car it is, its got a spacer where the head unit should be - was it a pre-prod or some kind of subaru stripper?

[austintampa]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Not very as there are two examples dyno videos and multiple runs. Plus oem tunes are way more likely to run rich and safe than lean.

not when emissions is the goal.

my ecoboost mustang would ping on sudden low RPM application of throttle - I dont assume that to be a rich condition.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Blighty

It will be really interesting to see more dynos.

Interesting that the values in this one suggest its lost 20% hp, and 11% tq through the drivetrain. (remember this is the 231hp JDM).

The tq peak is quite a bit earlier than the manufacturer suggest as well.

Are there any issues from dynoing it with 13kms (before its very initial break in)?

Also I wonder what car it is, its got a spacer where the head unit should be - was it a pre-prod or some kind of subaru stripper?

Seems like Japan gets additional infotainment choices.
The blank option, a larger touch screen that takes up all the bezel, and I think theres a double-din non-integrated unit.

[Baldeagle]

Originally Posted by austintampa

not when emissions is the goal.

my ecoboost mustang would ping on sudden low RPM application of throttle - I dont assume that to be a rich condition.

You are probably correct. That ping is probably NOT related to a rich fuel mixture. What you describe may be Low Speed Pre Ignition (LSPI).

https://www.oronite.com/about/news/l...causes-of-LSPI

“Low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) is a premature combustion event, occurring prior to spark ignition in turbocharged, downsized gasoline vehicles. As the name implies, it occurs when engines operate at low speeds and high loads. It can result in extremely high cylinder-pressures and can lead to heavy knock. At a minimum, LSPI can generate an audible knocking noise noticeable to the driver. Repeated exposure to these conditions can cause engine hardware failure, including broken spark plugs and cracked pistons.”

Because your Mustang is turbocharged, it is vulnerable to LSPI if you hit the gas too hard at very low rpm. However, the twin’s engine is not turbocharged. A bad driver can still lug it, but it will not get LSPI.

[FlyingJett]

Xmm.. is it a right time to look at GR Yaris ?)

[drift86]

Originally Posted by ZDan

You'd rather have to expend time/money/effort to get rid of "torque dip", than to just not have it in the stock setup?

I installed a catless header and got custom tune for my car this year due to arms race in my time-trialing class. After $$$$ and effort wriggling around under the car, while making it technically non-compliant with emissions regs, eliminated the torque dip. I would have *vastly* preferred just not having the dip in the first place!

From all the driving reports on the new car, the torque dip cannot be felt anymore. Unlike the first car, you don't need to spend any money to "get rid" of it if you are happy with stock levels of power.

For those that want to get a bit more power out of the car, the familiar looking torque dip tells me the new car will potentially respond to mods in a similar way as the first gen. 10-15% gains with a simple header, tune and e85 is amazing gains for a NA car. One of the best mods I have made on any car I've owned.

I'm sure Toyota/Subaru will prefer not to have a torque dip at all. But for cold start emission reasons, they likely had to position the cat as close to the engine as possible which compromises the exhaust flow.