What attributes should Toyota and Subaru retain in the Second Generation FT-86 (aka

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Is the fa20 the most powerful na motor that Subaru offers?

Yes. And the only way they squeezed that out was with the Toyota fueling system.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yes. And the only way they squeezed that out was with the Toyota fueling system.

Interesting. Thank you

[imped4now]

Originally Posted by CrowsFeast

... the twins honestly have one of the best feeling shifters of all modern cars IMO. They don't have the 'numb' rubber bushing feeling of most passenger cars; instead the shifts actually feel mechanical like you're directly connected to everything.

To this day, my '17 BRZ (w/ factory short shift option) had my favorite shift feel ever - tight w/no slop or wobble, moderate effort and the feel is just wonderful. I've driven many, many different manuals and the BRZ is my #1.

Originally Posted by Tokay444

The Miata is every bit that, and far better.

Have a '19 ND. I'm working on getting it to the BRZ's level. Shift feel is obviously subjective but the ND falls short of the BRZ in several areas, shift feel being a major one....it's loose, light and sloppy compared to the BRZ. While I loved the BRZ, I didn't truly appreciate it until it was gone in favor of my ND. The BRZ is one hell of a car and the shifter is gold.

[squelchy451]

Originally Posted by imped4now

To this day, my '17 BRZ (w/ factory short shift option) had my favorite shift feel ever - tight w/no slop or wobble, moderate effort and the feel is just wonderful. I've driven many, many different manuals and the BRZ is my #1.

Have a '19 ND. I'm working on getting it to the BRZ's level. Shift feel is obviously subjective but the ND falls short of the BRZ in several areas, shift feel being a major one....it's loose, light and sloppy compared to the BRZ. While I loved the BRZ, I didn't truly appreciate it until it was gone in favor of my ND. The BRZ is one hell of a car and the shifter is gold.

I had a Turo rental 86 and I don't think I came away with the same impression as you did. I also sat in a ND Miata a few times at a Mazda dealership and felt that shifter was the best. It felt very direct, mechanical, and substantial.

The second best would be E92 M3. Still direct, a bit more rubbery, and substantial.

The BRZ felt direct but very flimsy, like they used the lowest grade recycled steel and the components were made as thin as possible. There was also a lot of play, on par with the 07 GTI with bushings.

The 2007 GTI, which has shifter cable bushings and a short-shifter, feels more substantial and smoother. I do have engine and transmission mounts, so I'm sure that enhances shifter feel.

[davesrave]

[QUOTE=

The second best would be E92 M3. Still direct, a bit more rubbery, and substantial.

The BRZ felt direct but very flimsy, like they used the lowest grade recycled steel and the components were made as thin as possible. There was also a lot of play, on par with the 07 GTI with bushings.

The 2007 GTI, which has shifter cable bushings and a short-shifter, feels more substantial and smoother. I do have engine and transmission mounts, so I'm sure that enhances shifter feel.[/QUOTE]

Liked the 2013 BRZ Manual, thought the 2007 Miata was equal or better, the 2014 Boxster 2.7L was the best I've ever driven.

[Opie]

Next gen needs:
- To keep the manual
- Start at around $25k (Base, manual), have a track ready package (like a 1LE BRZ) that includes slight power bump, better gearing, better brakes, suspension, wheels & tires, a built in track camera data system and lightweight components for around $35k
- Keep it light, stiff and safe.
- Keep the interior uncluttered, less is more when you are creating a "drivers" car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Opie

Next gen needs:
- To keep the manual
- Start at around $25k (Base, manual), have a track ready package (like a 1LE BRZ) that includes slight power bump, better gearing, better brakes, suspension, wheels & tires, a built in track camera data system and lightweight components for around $35k
- Keep it light, stiff and safe.
- Keep the interior uncluttered, less is more when you are creating a "drivers" car.

How do you propose they lower the price on a new gen car? It costs money to develop and they expect to at least make it back even if not looking for huge sales numbers or profit.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How do you propose they lower the price on a new gen car? It costs money to develop and they expect to at least make it back even if not looking for huge sales numbers or profit.

Dropping the price is super easy! I mean the car shouldn't have cost as much as it does to begin with!!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Dropping the price is super easy! I mean the car shouldn't have cost as much as it does to begin with!!

You have the parts, labour and overhead breakdown to share?

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How do you propose they lower the price on a new gen car? It costs money to develop and they expect to at least make it back even if not looking for huge sales numbers or profit.

It's going to (likely) be based on an existing Toyota platform and use an existing Subaru powertrain. So no huge development costs there, also had Gen1 been priced about $2500 cheaper per trim level at it's launch (and it's 7 year run) it would've reached a larger audience. Most people who were interested in the BRZ/86 and then decided against buying it did see the value/price IMHO. There were better options for the same/less money from the competitors.

2014 Fiesta ST MSRP - $21,400
2013 Miata MSRP - $24,500
2013 VW GTI - $25,000
2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe - $25,125
2013 Honda Civic Si - $23,345
2013 WRX - $25,795
2013 BRZ MSRP - $25,495

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Opie

It's going to (likely) be based on an existing Toyota platform and use an existing Subaru powertrain. So no huge development costs there, also had Gen1 been priced about $2500 cheaper per trim level at it's launch (and it's 7 year run) it would've reached a larger audience. Most people who were interested in the BRZ/86 and then decided against buying it did see the value/price IMHO. There were better options for the same/less money from the competitors.

2014 Fiesta ST MSRP - $21,400
2013 Miata MSRP - $24,500
2013 VW GTI - $25,000
2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe - $25,125
2013 Honda Civic Si - $23,345
2013 WRX - $25,795
2013 BRZ MSRP - $25,495

Most of those are based on econoboxs that save a pile of production cash. If the BRZ/86 does indeed move to an econobox platform then yes it can be made cheaper. It also becomes yet another pretender based on a mass produced platform. There would be a distinct trade off to get it cheaper and I am not sure people would go for it.

[Lantanafrs2]

It wont sell as a bare bones track car. Very few people care about track worthiness. It has to be quick, comfortable and stylish.

[86MLR]

Yeap, I assume any turbo twin would be based of the top of the line model.

They are going to need to sell alot to make the venture worth while.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

[DarkPira7e]

boi it needs dat SOUND TUBE BRO! N' keep dat window switch rattle, I enjoy the company on otherwise noiseless roads breh