Disable ABS for ice driving course

[Pat]

Ice driving instructors sometimes request students eliminate ABS functionality entirely. One of the drills is to compare braking in a straight line with the pedal mashed to the floor engaging ABS the entire time. That distance is then measured and recorded.
Then, the student repeats the drill, this time with ABS eliminated entirely. That distance is then measured, recorded, and compared with the original, ABS-determined distance. The idea is to teach people that modulating the brake pedal just right manually without the use of ABS actually produces shorter stopping distances than with ABS engaged.
I don't know the instructor in question, but I'd bet that's what s/he is going for.
Pushing buttons in the cockpit will not accomplish what the OP is asking for.

[nico_rsx]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

As others have mentioned, dont pull the fuse, do the pedal dance. You will have 1 channel ABS (basic front-rear) and it allows for whatever shenanigams you want.

Nice picture, is that at Icar?

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by nico_rsx

Nice picture, is that at Icar?

Yes, snow attack last winter at Icar, not driving the FRS this winter so havent done any schenanigams this winter.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by nico_rsx

There is a good chance the instructor told us to locate the ABS fuse because a lot of modern car can't disable completely the stability control. He's probably more concerned about disabling the stability control than the ABS. But since with the twins we can turn it off completely, pulling the fuse may not be useful.

I was figuring something along the same lines. Depending on the type of event it is I'm guessing they are more used to people bringing out their average car winter vehicle or daily driver, not a sports car that has specific systems in place to disable nannies. It's likely a general rule, and your car happens to be the exception.

[nico_rsx]

So I tried it. I removed the green 40A fuse (ABS pump). Didn't remove the 25A one.

For future reference if someone wants to know what happens:
-There is no limp mode (got to 7K rpm). Didn't notice a loss in power.
-Obviously no ABS
-No traction or stability control
-3 lights: ABS, E-brake, and a yellow slip light (but not the same one as when you disable traction).
-Long pressing the trac button doesn't show the usual 2 lights (but trac and VSC are already off anyway).
-Even the throttle cut to prevent wheel spin is off (even if it doesn't require ABS).
-Don't know if EBD is disabled, but it would make sense.

This week-end I'll probably just long press Trac to disable all, considering the answers I've got it seems EBD may prove usefull. But I'll have the option to disable ABS if required.

Thanks everybody.

[ermax]

Thanks for the detailed reponce. Nice to have some actual details as apposed to the typical, don’t do this you will die response. Hahaha. I’ve had cars in the past were I ran with the abs fuse (along with all the bulbs) removed permanently. ABS on older cars could be very intrusive, kicking in way too early/often.

I saw someone in this thread bring up 86nanny or what ever it’s called. I’ve seen it before but for some reason I was under the impression it connected to the brake pedal and ebrake switches to emulate the pedal dance. But I just looked it up again and noticed it does it all via OBD2. I suspect it emulates the VSC inspection mode which can be enabled with Techstream. I’m going to try to sniff the communications from Techstream and make my own 86nanny with an Arduino. I would love to have a toggle switch for the nannies rather than needing to do something each time you start the car. There is nothing more anting than forgetting to turn off TC before an autox run and then having to hold a button for three hours while doing a slalom (poorly) with one hand. I suspect most people who autox have made this mistake at least once. Hahaha. But the VSC/TC/ABS in this car is very effective on this car in the rain when your guard is down because you not driving spiritedly. It’s saved me a few times in the rain where I’m not caring any speed and totally neutral (not unloading the rear or heavy throttle) yet the rear lets go anyways. I have horrible tires right now which doesn’t help. So I don’t want to pull the fuse on this car. I want an easy way to turn it on and off.

[JSube]

Originally Posted by ermax

So I don’t want to pull the fuse on this car. I want an easy way to turn it on and off.

I think a lot of people do, myself included, but I fear Beastronix may not exist anymore. I had an email exchange with them last June and was told their V2 86 Nanny would be out soon. Their site is still dark and they haven't posted on their fb page since last September. Also, the MIG 86 Traction/VSC eliminator 86 Speed Fac. sold has been shown as discontinued for months. Don't know if these are legal or developmental problems or something else.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by JSube

I think a lot of people do, myself included, but I fear Beastronix may not exist anymore. I had an email exchange with them last June and was told their V2 86 Nanny would be out soon. Their site is still dark and they haven't posted on their fb page since last September. Also, the MIG 86 Traction/VSC eliminator 86 Speed Fac. sold has been shown as discontinued for months. Don't know if these are legal or developmental problems or something else.

Yeah I didn’t have any luck finding anyone selling the 86nanny. Didn’t look that had mainly due to the high price. I’d rather build my own rig for $50 and have the flexibility to do much more. For example I could datalog to an SD card. Hell I could even add GPS and a GSM radio so it could log over the internet to a server. I found an all in one OBD2 dongle that is an arduino with SD slot, optional GPS, optional cellular radio, has built in BT/BLE and WiFi. It could tether via WiFi to an iPhone and data log over the internet. This device is only $50. GPS adds 35 and GSM adds 17. So very powerful for the price. You just have to write you own software.

[JSube]

Originally Posted by ermax

You just have to write you own software.

Yeah, I didn't think the parts were necessarily the issue on this item/non-item!
Have you ever seen "Field of Dreams?" If you build it they will come

[ermax]

Originally Posted by JSube

Yeah, I didn't think the parts were necessarily the issue on this item/non-item!

Have you ever seen "Field of Dreams?" If you build it they will come

I’m a software dev so this will not be a problem. I get the parts tomorrow. Not sure I will have the time to mess with it until the weekend though. I’m blown away at all the info out there on hacking can bus though. There are tools to make sniffing the traffic and finding the packets you need really easy.

[nico_rsx]

@ermax
For AutoX I have a red ribbon written "remove before flight", that I put on my shift knob. Then just before my run I disable VSC and remove the ribbon. It work most of the time, but I need to remember to put the ribbon


On slippery road, especially snow, the VSC is usefull, and "track" mode is not too intrusive most of the time. But on dry road, I think even on the 2017 track mode is still a bit too intrusive.

[JSube]

Originally Posted by ermax

I’m a software dev so this will not be a problem. I get the parts tomorrow. Not sure I will have the time to mess with it until the weekend though. I’m blown away at all the info out there on hacking can bus though. There are tools to make sniffing the traffic and finding the packets you need really easy.

A couple odd things about all this to me; a friend of mine whose BRZ is a dedicated track car with everything bolt-on you can think of had the MIG device and loved it, then it wasn't available for purchase anymore.

I did the airflow bolt-ons & tuned my car last December and then noticed an EcuTek video talking about a traction control option available thru their bluetooth module, but my tuner (Delicious) says the Ecutek traction control options are only available once you've manually turned off the factory traction completely in the car. So their approach was to write a program for everything that affects traction/stability controls EXCEPT turning off the factory nannies.

Anyway, this all makes me wonder why the simplest and cheapest ($80) option that was available went away and how the power of Ecutek didn't write a simple solution into their comprehensive program. Then Beastronix seemingly disappears. I don't know if you'll find some complicating issues once you get farther into it, but I'll look forward to what you come up with

[ermax]

Originally Posted by nico_rsx

@ermax
For AutoX I have a red ribbon written "remove before flight", that I put on my shift knob. Then just before my run I disable VSC and remove the ribbon. It work most of the time, but I need to remember to put the ribbon


On slippery road, especially snow, the VSC is usefull, and "track" mode is not too intrusive most of the time. But on dry road, I think even on the 2017 track mode is still a bit too intrusive.

I used to use the same technique for simracing. I had post it notes on my monitor for all the prerace stuff I needed to do and sometimes I would even put notes up to remind me of crap to do on pit stops.. Problem was I would either forget to put them on the monitor or forget to take them off after completing steps (mostly pit related). Hahaha

[ermax]

Originally Posted by JSube

A couple odd things about all this to me; a friend of mine whose BRZ is a dedicated track car with everything bolt-on you can think of had the MIG device and loved it, then it wasn't available for purchase anymore.

I did the airflow bolt-ons & tuned my car last December and then noticed an EcuTek video talking about a traction control option available thru their bluetooth module, but my tuner (Delicious) says the Ecutek traction control options are only available once you've manually turned off the factory traction completely in the car. So their approach was to write a program for everything that affects traction/stability controls EXCEPT turning off the factory nannies.

Anyway, this all makes me wonder why the simplest and cheapest ($80) option that was available went away and how the power of Ecutek didn't write a simple solution into their comprehensive program. Then Beastronix seemingly disappears. I don't know if you'll find some complicating issues once you get farther into it, but I'll look forward to what you come up with

All good points. I got all excited about the 86nanny doing it all via the canbus and figured I should be able to do the same. I didn't realize it was vaporware though. I hope it don't run into problems. If I can't pull off the TC stuff I can still do other fun stuff with all this hardware so at least it will not be a total waste of money. Maybe all these options went away due to liability concerns.

I have never tested the inspection mode in Techstream before. As far as I know it turns off everything. I figure if Techstream can do it then I should be able to sniff is and replicate it. If inspection mode doesn't actually turn everything off then I may be SOL. I will try inspection mode tonight with Techstream just to see what it does exactly.