Michelin Pilot Sport 4S available OEM size for our cars

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S are extremely good as a street tire.

Pretty expensive though. I'm torn between 4$ (ha see what I did there) and the Continental Extreme Contact Sport.

- andrew

I was looking to try these out after my MPSS wear out, but with the Conti ExtremeContact Sports being cheaper by more than $200 (!) for the set (tirerack pricing), I think I'll have to give the Contis a try on the next go around...

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

And to add there are way better tires for that price than those pos tires (personal opinion, don't get butt hurt)

Ok, I'll bite. You said tires; name two please.

[Brink]

I'm thinking about upgrading to these soon, but I'd be keeping them on year-round for DD use. It rarely gets below freezing around here, much less to 20f, so I should be fine right? Even if it does get to <40f overnight they'll be ok to drive on as long as it doesn't get to 20f is my understanding? I'm only at something like 4300 miles so I don't exactly need new tires yet but I'd like to get something stickier than the stock tires in the next few months.

[wolffbite]

Planning to get these for my summer set once my wheels come in. March can't come soon enough.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by ZDan

How so? I tried MPSS on the RX-7, was underwhelmed, went back to 200TW tires RE71R and then to NT01s street and track. S2000 even after I stopped tracking it I've kept it on Hankook RS3s.

The couple of times I've stepped back from "Extreme Perf" 200tw tires to "Max Perf" tires, even for street-only usage, I've been somewhat disappointed. Going back the other way, I honestly don't notice any downsides. Even hydroplaning resistance isn't all that terribly affected, at least at reasonable tread depths.

----

Yeah, the Extreme Perf tires wear faster, particularly RE71R. But I've gotten upwards of 20k miles out of Hankook RS3 on the S2000, including a couple of track days. For me, buying a set of tires for daily-driver every 12-18 months vs. every couple to three years is worth it for better responsiveness and handling precision, and grip at the track should I take it there.

I'll start off by saying, no offense intended AT ALL...


With that out of the way...

It sounds like you're driving WAY too fast on the street and WAY too slow on the track.

How so?

1) If I was driving my MPS4s to the point where they felt "disappointing" on the street and I needed 200TWs, I'd be dangerously hauling ass and probably could use my license suspended to get my head straight. Also, almost all 200TWs need some heat in them to work properly. Ice cold RS3s are probably only marginally grippier than MPS4s in most street conditions. So how fast are you driving on the street with cold RS3s to warm them up and keep them warm? Probably too damn fast man.



2) If I was getting 20k+ miles including track days from my RS3s, then I was likely not braking hard or late enough to really be using them well enough on the track. If you're RS3s look pristine and still work (meaning have more heat cycles in them) after that many miles, you might consider speeding up on the track.


Side note - MPS4s are a big step up from MPSS in wet grip, and wet braking. That's the biggest upgrade. At the limit dry grip is roughly the same as MPSS. MPS4s are also supposed to be more comfortable, than MPSS, but I haven't driven them back to back to be able to compare.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

Ok, I'll bite. You said tires; name two please.

Meh, they're probably a solid all around tire, and pretty much the only review I've seen is Tirerack saying they're better than the Conti's so I won't posit what a 'better tire' is. These were on my shortlist but at that price I'm going to pick Continental's or Firestone Firehawk Indy's instead. For a lot of people the idea of "half the price 80% of the performance" is good enough. Maybe I'll regret it, but based on my current MPSS and reports that MP4S is only marginally better in the dry I'm not afraid that I'll be missing anything. I'm looking forward to scrapping them in the fall at ~20k miles, maybe I'll be back on the Michelin train in a few years, but nothing about the MP4S excites me at that price point.

A set of these in 215-45-17 is more expensive than a set of RE71R's in 245-40-17, the Firehawk Indy's are almost half the price of the MP4$ for the same size, I'm already on a two wheel setup so for my money I'd rather a decent DD tire and a great weekend tire than vice versa.

tl;dr there's a lot of hype around Michelin, they put their advertising dollars to good use, there's cheaper tires to DD on that perform nearly as well on the street (or better depending on your priorities) and lots of tires that are better to drive hard on, all for less money. If you need one tire to do it all it's probably a decent choice.

Originally Posted by Brink

I'm thinking about upgrading to these soon, but I'd be keeping them on year-round for DD use. It rarely gets below freezing around here, much less to 20f, so I should be fine right? Even if it does get to <40f overnight they'll be ok to drive on as long as it doesn't get to 20f is my understanding? I'm only at something like 4300 miles so I don't exactly need new tires yet but I'd like to get something stickier than the stock tires in the next few months.

If you're on the California coast/valley and not in the mountains you'll be fine with summer tires. Just be careful in the cold, you'll probably hit a point where you can tell when the tires aren't gripping as well as they did in the warm.

[churchx]

Originally Posted by JD001

Smallest diameter 4s available in the UK is 19inch! https://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/mic...ilot-sport-4-s

That sounds like still not updated sizing chart from initial launch year ago.
As i could google up some 17" in EU shops too, so i'd probably ask tire shops around, if they are able to order them (though double check, if not mistakening them with MPS4 non-S).

[sam69]

I'm running the PS4's in 245/40/17 and have not had better tyres than these and their overall grip even on the track is quite amazing plus quite on the road .

Haven't done many miles as yet so can't comment on tire life .

[ermax]

Originally Posted by churchx

That sounds like still not updated sizing chart from initial launch year ago.
As i could google up some 17" in EU shops too, so i'd probably ask tire shops around, if they are able to order them (though double check, if not mistakening them with MPS4 non-S).

TireRack doesn’t list any 17 either. Surly if they were available TireRack of all places would sell them.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

It sounds like you're driving WAY too fast on the street and WAY too slow on the track.

And that's where you're wrong, kiddo! I drive extremely conservatively on the street. You could check out the fuel economy I get on fuelly.com (Behemoth), averaging near 30mpg in the BRZ, averaged 27+mpg in the S2000, and an astounding 24+ mpg on the street (90% highway trips) in the 550hp 6.8 liter FD.

When I do engage in "spirited" driving on backroads or onramps it's at ~6-7/10ths, nowhere near even 8/10ths. Because I know the *real* fun is at 9.5 to 10.5/10ths and I also know it is not at all practical to do that on the street, pretty much ever. So I don't go there on the street.

1) If I was driving my MPS4s to the point where they felt "disappointing" on the street and I needed 200TWs, I'd be dangerously hauling ass and probably could use my license suspended to get my head straight.

You don't have to be anywhere near the limit to appreciate the feel of a more responsive tire with bigger tread blocks, less void area, and stiffer sidewalls.

Also, almost all 200TWs need some heat in them to work properly.

This has not been my experience on the Extreme Perf tires I'm familiar with. I don't think it's generally any more the case with them than with Max Perf Summer tires.

Speaking of which, my biggest beef with the MPSS was that mine lost all grip due to age after only 2 years or less on the car. I never had that happen on any of the Extreme Perf tires I've run. Mind you they only had a half track day on them so it's not like they were heat-cycled out. They just aged-out after a *very* short time. I've had track-only R-comps do better after 5 years in the garage...

Ice cold RS3s are probably only marginally grippier than MPS4s in most street conditions.

Lots of experience on RS3 and RS3 V2. The first gen didn't have much grip on the street in cold/wet conditions, the V2 do a lot better in this regard. Ice cold, I would say that MPS4S likely have more grip, at least when new...

So how fast are you driving on the street with cold RS3s to warm them up and keep them warm? Probably too damn fast man.

(Cornholio voice) "Are you threatening me?!"
Again, you couldn't be more wrong on that point.
I don't find that modern Extreme Perf and even NT01 R-comps need much if any heat in them to provide ~85% of their grip, which is quite a lot. I've never even tried to "warm up" tires to full perfomance potential on the street.

2) If I was getting 20k+ miles including track days from my RS3s, then I was likely not braking hard or late enough to really be using them well enough on the track.

That set only saw two track days at Mosport in the (bone stock) daily-driver S2000, and one of them was in the rain at ~36F.

If you're RS3s look pristine and still work (meaning have more heat cycles in them) after that many miles, you might consider speeding up on the track.

Quite the presumptuous one! I do OK at the track, you can check out my time trial times dating back to 1999 at https://www.comscc.org/events/results/
Dan Baldwin, car #7, won class championships four or five times, but it's only time trials, not real racing (I have won races and a championship on 2 wheels though)...

I'm not the most consistent driver, but one FTD and at least a couple of 2nd FTDs... If anything I'm known for taking it to the ragged edge and hanging it out there quite a bit...

On the subject of tire consumption, RE71Rs rears on the 6.8 FD lasted me *one day* at Talledega Gran Prix Raceway and they were to the treadwear indicators (~500 street miles). That's when I replaced them with NT01s for street/track, which work a LOT better and last a LOT longer 4000-5000 street miles and 6 track days. Hit 160mph at Mosport and 155mph at Watkins Glen

Side note - MPS4s are a big step up from MPSS in wet grip, and wet braking. That's the biggest upgrade. At the limit dry grip is roughly the same as MPSS. MPS4s are also supposed to be more comfortable, than MPSS, but I haven't driven them back to back to be able to compare.

More comfortable is probably a negative for me, I felt the MPSS were too soft...

ANYway, glad to be able to dispel your misconceptions!

[churchx]

Originally Posted by ermax

TireRack doesn’t list any 17 either. Surly if they were available TireRack of all places would sell them.

TireRack lists them. Click Sizes tab.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by churchx

TireRack lists them. Click Sizes tab.

Wow.. I literally just checked the sizes a week or so ago and 17 wasn't an option. Good to see.

[ermax]

Man ZDan hits on all the same points as I would. Particularly about the drop off with age on MaxPerf tires. Tire temps also aren't a problem with street use at 7/10ths. It doesn't take long to get enough heat in them for street use. I'm in Florida so I only really notice a grip reduction a hand full of weeks on those random years it actually gets cold here (this year for example). But we aren't talking about race pads that need constant abuse to work well.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by churchx

That sounds like still not updated sizing chart from initial launch year ago.
As i could google up some 17" in EU shops too, so i'd probably ask tire shops around, if they are able to order them (though double check, if not mistakening them with MPS4 non-S).

This summer I am determined to upgrade the tyres.. MPSS, MPS4s or the Cup2. the MPSS and Cup2 are in the same price bracket. I can't find a price for the MPS4s. You're right that the non 'S' version is muddying the water.


Let's see if the situation changes in the UK regards availability.