Strange steering feel

[bcj]

Yup. The sway bars are designed to float like that.
It allows the bar to twist and apply load across the width of the car and move slightly while the suspension changes geometry compared side to side.
The end link drops will account for most of the geometry but not all of it.

I don't think that's the issue you should be concentrating on.

[speedyspaghetti]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

not you issue, but I believe is should be 89 ft/lbs.

I did 100 because I have to use a spline adapter for my lug nuts that doesn't directly snap onto the torque wrench, rather it has to be torqued by a 3/4" socket, so I figured that the actual torque would be lesser than the amount inputted on the torque wrench, so I tried to account for that. Not sure how accurate this is, but I figured a little bit snugger is better than a little looser - plus I'm pretty sure most crappy shops just air wrench them on way past 89 ft/lbs.

[speedyspaghetti]

Originally Posted by bcj

Yup. The sway bars are designed to float like that.
It allows the bar to twist and apply load across the width of the car and move slightly while the suspension changes geometry compared side to side.
The end link drops will account for most of the geometry but not all of it.

I don't think that's the issue you should be concentrating on.

Ok, that makes sense. I wasn't sure since I tried to see if there was anything obviously loose, and that was the only thing that moved. I'm starting to think it's an alignment issue - I have an appointment on Wednesday to get the alignment looked at. Thank you.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti

I did 100 because I have to use a spline adapter for my lug nuts that doesn't directly snap onto the torque wrench, rather it has to be torqued by a 3/4" socket, so I figured that the actual torque would be lesser than the amount inputted on the torque wrench, so I tried to account for that. Not sure how accurate this is, but I figured a little bit snugger is better than a little looser - plus I'm pretty sure most crappy shops just air wrench them on way past 89 ft/lbs.

Actually, the correct torque is better than the incorrect torque. The size of the socket is irrelevant. If your spline adapter is not offset from the axis of rotation of the wrench, the set torque is the actual torque, unless your wrench is fubar.

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Actually, the correct torque is better than the incorrect torque. The size of the socket is irrelevant. If your spline adapter is not offset from the axis of rotation of the wrench, the set torque is the actual torque, unless your wrench is fubar.

Yea, but other people do it wrong, so ok if I do it wrong.

Over tightening lug nuts on aluminium rims isn't good.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti

I did 100 because I have to use a spline adapter for my lug nuts that doesn't directly snap onto the torque wrench, rather it has to be torqued by a 3/4" socket, so I figured that the actual torque would be lesser than the amount inputted on the torque wrench, so I tried to account for that. Not sure how accurate this is, but I figured a little bit snugger is better than a little looser - plus I'm pretty sure most crappy shops just air wrench them on way past 89 ft/lbs.

That's not how torque wrenches and adapters work... adapter or not, the torque at the wrench is the torque on the lug. The only time this would be different is if the adapter is offset to increase/decrease leverage, or if it's a torque multiplying wrench (internally geared).

[speedyspaghetti]

Originally Posted by wparsons

That's not how torque wrenches and adapters work... adapter or not, the torque at the wrench is the torque on the lug. The only time this would be different is if the adapter is offset to increase/decrease leverage, or if it's a torque multiplying wrench (internally geared).

Ah, gotcha. Sorry, I must have misunderstood something - thank you for explaining it, I'll fix it when I get home today.

[speedyspaghetti]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Actually, the correct torque is better than the incorrect torque. The size of the socket is irrelevant. If your spline adapter is not offset from the axis of rotation of the wrench, the set torque is the actual torque, unless your wrench is fubar.

Thanks for the explanation - I misunderstood something I read at some point, but thanks for clearing it up. I'll fix it when I get home today.

[speedyspaghetti]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Yea, but other people do it wrong, so ok if I do it wrong.

What do you mean by this?

[speedyspaghetti]

Alright everyone, so I took the general consensus advice - "stop being a dumbass and get an alignment." I went to a local shop with good reviews and had them align the car. Only thing that was off was toe, which he brought back into spec.

After the alignment, the car still feels the same to me. It feels like the steering is overly light and uncommunicative at low speeds, and there is close to an inch of play in either direction before the wheels feel like they actually respond to the steering input. At this point, I've had Toyota look at, and I've had the alignment. Could it just come down to tires? Nokian entyre 225s - they have a ton of tread left, but they are all-season tires and probably not the stickiest.

Or, conversely, what else could I look at replacing/upgrading to make the steering more direct and less light? Would steering rack bushings be a good idea? Stiffer sway bar? Again, thanks for all the help. My alignment specs are below in case anyone wanted to see them.

https://imgur.com/a/xO9Ow

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti

Alright everyone, so I took the general consensus advice - "stop being a dumbass and get an alignment." I went to a local shop with good reviews and had them align the car. Only thing that was off was toe, which he brought back into spec.

After the alignment, the car still feels the same to me. It feels like the steering is overly light and uncommunicative at low speeds, and there is close to an inch of play in either direction before the wheels feel like they actually respond to the steering input. At this point, I've had Toyota look at, and I've had the alignment. Could it just come down to tires? Nokian entyre 225s - they have a ton of tread left, but they are all-season tires and probably not the stickiest.

Or, conversely, what else could I look at replacing/upgrading to make the steering more direct and less light? Would steering rack bushings be a good idea? Stiffer sway bar? Again, thanks for all the help. My alignment specs are below in case anyone wanted to see them.

https://imgur.com/a/xO9Ow

Well now, speedyspaghetti, it's good you had an alignment done on your car......

Now, hopefully, between the dealership and the alignment shop, they thoroughly checked all of the suspension parts for anything that may be lose .... ?? Also, hopefully the checked the steering rack for excessive play ..??

So, let's review the tires. You had two new ones put on ..... right? And they are both on either the front or back ..... right ..?

Are all 4 tires the same size .. ?? Are they all the same type ..?? Are they all the same brand ..??

If not, what are they.

Let's hope we can help you figure out what's going on with your car.


humfrz

[speedyspaghetti]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Well now, speedyspaghetti, it's good you had an alignment done on your car......

Now, hopefully, between the dealership and the alignment shop, they thoroughly checked all of the suspension parts for anything that may be lose .... ?? Also, hopefully the checked the steering rack for excessive play ..??

So, let's review the tires. You had two new ones put on ..... right? And they are both on either the front or back ..... right ..?

Are all 4 tires the same size .. ?? Are they all the same type ..?? Are they all the same brand ..??

If not, what are they.

Let's hope we can help you figure out what's going on with your car.


humfrz

Hey - both Toyota and the alignment shop checked the suspension and the steering rack, neither said they found anything. However, I really doubt Toyota did a thorough job because it sounds like they just had a technician drive it, he said it felt fine to him, and then told me to pick it up.

All tires are original to the car when I bought it used at 25k miles, it now has 27k miles, They are all Nokian Entyre 225/47/17. All I did was rotate the rear tires to the front and the front tires to the back. The tires are asymmetrical, all season. I don't know exactly when they were put on, but they seem to have plenty of tread left.

Thanks again for all the help and patience... really appreciate it.

[strat61caster]

225 on a 7" wheel will feel mushy compared to a 215

Also I can definitely move my steering wheel about an inch before it really starts loading up and moving the wheels at low speed, you've probably gotten comfortable with the car so it doesn't feel as responsive anymore. Hop in another car next chance you get, I bet it improves your opinion of the 86.

You can also safely run a sportier summer tire year round with a stiffer sidewall to improve steering response, I say go back to a 215, there's a reason it was chosen by the factory.

Edit: getting used to the car also explains the body roll, your more comfortable so you're subconsciously driving it faster, you may also think you're running out of grip in tires that look fine, same phenomenon, you've become comfortable with the limit so it seems like the limit is reduced compared to before. I've gone through the same thing and junked the oe tires early when they still had some life left in hindsight, and I have talked to a few others with similar experiences.

First time you hop in a car like this it seems like it can do anything, after enough seat time you find out where the limits are.

[Racecomp Engineering]

My thought from the other side of the country is mushy/squirmy tires that aren't the ideal width for your wheel and you're just now noticing it more after the post-car buying honeymoon period.

Tires will have a much larger difference than any other upgrade you buy, so get tires that match your goals first.

- Andrew