Bilstein b6 + Stock springs

[Gforce]

This guy knows his stuff:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-LpPc8qutCA[/ame]

And, just btw, "drifting", the synchronized swimming of Motorsport, is entirely different from holding an oversteer angle in order to drive around a corner on a track.

Keep your hands on the wheel at all times. When you take your hands off the wheel of a car you are no longer driving it.

And here he is showing one and all how to "drift" a box stock Toyota GT86 on introduction, bear in mind the GT86 had stiffer rear springs than the BRZ, but softer than those fitted to the first FRS.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g[/ame]

And so I did.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by Gforce

This guy knows his stuff:

And, just btw, "drifting", the synchronized swimming of Motorsport, is entirely different from holding an oversteer angle in order to drive around a corner on a track.

Keep your hands on the wheel at all times. When you take your hands off the wheel of a car you are no longer driving it.

Did you even fking watch the video you linked? 4:40 and onwards? Man, you are more full of shit that I though you were, did you pass by the bathroom this morning? I think you might need to go again anyways.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

Did you even fking watch the video you linked? 4:40 and onwards? Man, you are more full of shit that I though you were, did you pass by the bathroom this morning? I think you might need to go again anyways.

Maybe take an anger management course before your next ice dancing lessons?

I see our official thread nerd shares your affinity for primitive scatological attempts at humour.

[Hyper4mance2k]

This thread is ruined. There are people who obviously arent engineers, or don't do this for a living arguing about nothing. In some cases literally making things up, or just parroting knowlege about things they simply dont fully understand. Where are the moderators when you need them?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Hyper4mance2k

There are people who obviously arent engineers,

Reading a couple books and passing a couple tests is totally overrated, there are lots of dumb 'engineers' out there. I learned a lot working on this car, the book-learnin' theories simply don't hold up in some cases, but there's lots of experienced people developing this chassis, they've gravitated to certain setups for a reason.

Moderators don't step up much in technical forums until shit really hits the fan. Not quite there yet, doubt it'll get there either unless someone doubles down again.

[churchx]

Icecreamtruk: regarding both hands on steering wheel .. i both agree & disagree .. yes, sometimes when drifting, not just driving fast around track, one may need to do rather big & corrections/countersteering and such .. but then again most of precision gets lost, and it goes against principle that quicker you do steering input, the less big it needs to be. And with both hands on wheel in most cases one can do initial steering input quicker/sharper/more precise. Often enough to not need steer much. +Isn't drifting steering more done by accelerator pedal (and braking, to eg. transfer mass & grip to front), with steering just for initial pointing of turn direction?

[JMon85]

All I'm saying is Mr engineer came in here hard charging like he knows a little about something then posted his weak ass video .. lol.. credibility lost .. ppl just need to chill.. thanks anyway too the ppl who constructively contributed

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Except I find the ride hard enough so I went only with 2017 rear springs. The factory left the original 18 mm front bar in while I have a 20 mm bar. I'm estimating I get about the same front roll resistance as the 2017 factory set up.

I am pondering adding crash bolts to the front struts to add a little front negative camber. Mainly because the front tire wear indicates it could improve front grip. The trouble is my car must drive well on softish winter tires for half the year. The winter tires are wearing evenly front and rear which indicates alignmmet is close to perfect for street use.

I only drive on the street. I can get all the rotation that is safe by using my right foot.

What are the rear spring rates for the 17?

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

What are the rear spring rates for the 17?

Nobody has published the numbers. Several journalists claim 10-15% softer. Odd, the Australians seem to get this information before anybody else.

Seat of the pants dyno says this range is correct. The ride is now acceptable and the hanging actually improved especially over bumps in the bends. Huge improvement in cornering over bumps.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by churchx

Icecreamtruk: regarding both hands on steering wheel .. i both agree & disagree .. yes, sometimes when drifting, not just driving fast around track, one may need to do rather big & corrections/countersteering and such .. but then again most of precision gets lost, and it goes against principle that quicker you do steering input, the less big it needs to be. And with both hands on wheel in most cases one can do initial steering input quicker/sharper/more precise. Often enough to not need steer much. +Isn't drifting steering more done by accelerator pedal (and braking, to eg. transfer mass & grip to front), with steering just for initial pointing of turn direction?

Yeah you are spot on. Drifting requires you to let go of the wheel because of angles, while grip driving with small slip angle does not (and should not). There is one exception, that could happen in the wet. Sudden loss of rear traction may be enough to have to let go of the wheel (for example letting the rear hang out and pass over a painted berm, those things are ice in the wet). I have experienced it myself. First time around, I tried to steer, couldnt do it quick enough, ended up scrapping the guardrail (still have the marks on the bumper). Second time around, winter driving reflexes took over before I realised it I had let go of the wheel, funny tho, I recovered from that one no problem and kept going. The steering wheel is faster on its own than you are pushing. If you arent fast enough, the answer is not to give up and sell the car, its to get better, using whatever means work for you, even if those means are letting go of the wheel. It really annoys me when I see people driving and gripping the wheel like a gorilla, you cant even feel what the car is trying to tell you that way.

By the way, when drifting in low grip surfaces or high powered cars, you do most of the drift with accelerator and brakes (hand or normal one). On dry surface and low power car, you need lots of steering input to throw the car around since you cant usually overpower the rear as easily.

[OND]

Originally Posted by JMon85

All I'm saying is Mr engineer came in here hard charging like he knows a little about something then posted his weak ass video .. lol.. credibility lost .. ppl just need to chill.. thanks anyway too the ppl who constructively contributed

I stopped feeding the troll to keep this thread clean, but if you are going to be talking sh.t about me, I might as well let this become a bigger mess...

Soooo, do you know how to read? I put up a video of me learning to slide the car last year, clearly stating this was my first attempts, I am not particularly skilled and even a newb like me could hold a slide in the BRZ on their first wet outings to prove the point that BRZ's are pretty balanced even in low grip situations unlike falsely claimed otherwise by the troll. If you think it's a "weak ass" video and want to contribute to the community, please share some of your own in one of the many video threads. I have a feeling that neither you nor the troll will be doing that anytime soon.

I guess I should have just left you and your buddy to talk about your adventures of "Humvee drifting" and "doing fwd donuts in a parking lot full of cars" while "constructively" messing up your cars handling based on a paranoia of oversteery BRZs.

At the end of the day, you can only lead a horse to water...

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

Yeah you are spot on. Drifting requires you to let go of the wheel because of angles, while grip driving with small slip angle does not (and should not). There is one exception, that could happen in the wet. Sudden loss of rear traction may be enough to have to let go of the wheel (for example letting the rear hang out and pass over a painted berm, those things are ice in the wet). I have experienced it myself. First time around, I tried to steer, couldnt do it quick enough, ended up scrapping the guardrail (still have the marks on the bumper). Second time around, winter driving reflexes took over before I realised it I had let go of the wheel, funny tho, I recovered from that one no problem and kept going. The steering wheel is faster on its own than you are pushing. If you arent fast enough, the answer is not to give up and sell the car, its to get better, using whatever means work for you, even if those means are letting go of the wheel. It really annoys me when I see people driving and gripping the wheel like a gorilla, you cant even feel what the car is trying to tell you that way.

By the way, when drifting in low grip surfaces or high powered cars, you do most of the drift with accelerator and brakes (hand or normal one). On dry surface and low power car, you need lots of steering input to throw the car around since you cant usually overpower the rear as easily.

This is really dangerous advice. Never let go of the steering wheel in ordinary driving, especially in winter conditions. If you have the presence of mind take your hands off the wheel just before impact if you are about to crash head on. Take them off to each side or the airbag will cause you to punch yourself in the face.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by OND

I stopped feeding the troll to keep this thread clean, but if you are going to be talking sh.t about me, I might as well let this become a bigger mess...

Soooo, do you know how to read? I put up a video of me learning to slide the car last year, clearly stating this was my first attempts, I am not particularly skilled and even a newb like me could hold a slide in the BRZ on their first wet outings to prove the point that BRZ's are pretty balanced even in low grip situations unlike falsely claimed otherwise by the troll. If you think it's a "weak ass" video and want to contribute to the community, please share some of your own in one of the many video threads. I have a feeling that neither you nor the troll will be doing that anytime soon.

I guess I should have just left you and your buddy to talk about your adventures of "Humvee drifting" and "doing fwd donuts in a parking lot full of cars" while "constructively" messing up your cars handling based on a paranoia of oversteery BRZs.

At the end of the day, you can only lead a horse to water...

Yes, but you didn't "hold the slide". The chassis is so good you don't even realize that you had nothing to do with the car remaining pointing more or less where you were going. You very nearly lost the car on almost every attempt. The road wasn't that slippery obviously or the tires would not have made those noises informing you that you had totally screwed up.

Delusions of grandeur, my friend. Get some proper experience or, preferably instruction before you hurt somebody.

[Icecreamtruk]

This is really dangerous advice. Never let go of the steering wheel in ordinary driving, especially in winter conditions. If you have the presence of mind take your hands off the wheel just before impact if you are about to crash head on. Take them off to each side or the airbag will cause you to punch yourself in the face.

We are talking about driving on a racetrack here, we left the "ordinary driving" the moment you signed the waiver and got in the track area.