Switched from RCE Yellows to Bilstein B8/RCE Tarmac Springs

[was385]

I recently switched to a combination of Bilstein B8 dampers and RCE Tarmac springs and wanted to share my views of this setup in comparison to a full stock setup and RCE Yellow springs/stock dampers. This car is both my daily driver and my weekend STX AutoX toy so all of my suspension choices are based on having a fairly competitive setup for AutoX, while still being able to drive to work without being rattled to death. Initially, I ran a full season on a stock setup and then half a season on RCE Yellows with 245 Dunlop Z2s before deciding that I wanted something that I could push a bit harder. After extensive research, I ended up with this combination with the reasoning that it should provide significantly better performance and comfort than the Taiwanese height-adjustable coilovers in the same price range and is $1400+ cheaper than any of what I consider to be worthwhile adjustable coilovers when you take into account the need for an adjustable rear LCA. The bottom line for me was that as much as I wanted something like the RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers, I just couldn't justify the expense when this setup more than suited my intentions.

As I haven't yet had a chance to AutoX with the new suspension, the initial review will focus on B8/Tarmac in the context of daily driving. First, my opinion of the RCE Yellows is that @Racecomp Engineering designed springs that should have come stock from the factory. They significantly cut down on body roll, while creating a ride that was a little bit harsher over the bigger bumps, but definitely soaked up the small things better than stock. Despite moving on from my Yellow springs, I would absolutely recommend them to anyone looking for a cheap performance increase.

Fast forward to this weekend and I installed the B8s/Tarmacs, got the car aligned, and drove a couple hundred miles combined on the highway, in the city (with awful roads), and in a suburban environment. To be honest, I was a bit concerned about the ride quality until I got the car out on the road. The little first-hand information that I was able to gather before installing them said that the Bilsteins were stiff out of the box and would need a couple of weeks to break in. After driving them for a bit, my concerns have been alleviated. I think it's a bit less comfortable than both stock and RCE yellows at speeds under about 35 mph but is actually an improvement in terms of comfort on higher speed limit roads and highways. The biggest difference to me was with big bumps such as the lowered drainage grates that plague the highways around me. On both of the other setups, they were quite jarring, but now the suspension soaks them up incredibly well. If the Bilsteins stay exactly as they are, then I'd be perfectly happy to DD them and any breaking in is just icing on the cake.

It wasn't all cruising on the highway though, I did push the car a bit on some backroads and the car responded better than I ever expected. There's now noticeably less body roll when really pushing the car through a turn and more importantly, the car isn't really upset by mid-turn bumps and dips. That was a bit of an issue with the RCE yellows and a much bigger issue with stock suspension as you're on the bumpstops pretty often when pushing the car. I wasn't willing to find the limits since I was on public roads but the car now gives me quite a bit more confidence going hard into a turn and I can't wait to see how it performs at the limit this weekend. I'll be taking part in a Test & Tune Saturday and an AutoX Sunday, after which I'll update this post with some impressions from an AutoX standpoint.

And because I know people are interested, the drop is advertised to be the same as the Yellows (20mm, about 0.8 inches) and that looks accurate to my eyes. Apologies for the crappy iPhone pic.

[was385]

My plan was to write an autocross-specific review quite a bit earlier but I didn't feel it would be a fair review after my first even with them a couple of weeks ago. Despite feeling better, my times were just a bit off the pace of the guys I normally go head-to-head with and I just didn't have the grip that I was used to or expected. I drove away from the event hoping that the Bilsteins breaking in some more would give me the performance I had hoped for.

Today I was finally able to get that second event in with the Bilsteins/Tarmacs and I can absolutely say that the Bilsteins need to break in before you see anything close to their full potential. After finishing 4th out of 4 in STX the first time (0.5 seconds from 3rd and 33rd in PAX), I took 1st in STX by almost 0.5 seconds and a top ten PAX finish (still waiting on the official PAX standings). The suspension is quite a bit softer now and really allowed the tires to work, resulting in far more grip than the first time. I'm a fairly aggressive driver and the higher front spring rates were able to respond when I threw the car into corners. With RCE camber plates (-3 degrees) and a strano front sway, the car has become incredibly neutral with the ability to rotate the car exactly as much as I want with very small throttle inputs while cornering.

It took some patience but the Bilsteins/Tarmacs are exactly what I hoped for when I bought them. They're a great autox/street setup for the money and miles ahead of the low-end coilover options I've ridden on in the same price range. If this experience has taught me anything, it's that stiff doesn't mean fast, which IMO is generally how these cheaper options are judged by people who buy them. At just north of $1000, you're going to have to make some pretty big sacrifices on any suspension setup. I decided to forego adjustability (height and damping) for performance and quality. Anyone who says you can get everything at that price point is probably trying to sell you something or doesn't really know what they're talking about. And as a bonus to everything, now that they've broken in they're a little bit softer around town (though still not as comfortable as stock or RCE yellows), but much more comfortable on the highway. There's a pretty substantial bump on my way home from work, where I used to have to slow down to 40 mph for and still winced before going over and now I can go over at 60 fairly comfortably. The damping on high speed bumps and ruts is miles ahead of everything else I've had on the car.

If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to try to answer them.

[FT-86 SpeedFactory]

This is a great set-up for someone who wants a simple and effective set-up that handles and rides great as well. Great choice, and nice write up.

[husker741]

Any particular reason you didn't stick with the Yellows after adding the B8's?

[was385]

Originally Posted by husker741

Any particular reason you didn't stick with the Yellows after adding the B8's?

The yellows were designed for stock dampers and the Tarmacs for aftermarket dampers. Obviously the yellows would still work well with the B8s but I wanted to do it right the first time. It doesn't hurt that I got a good deal on the yellows so I should be able to sell them on without much of a loss. Take it for what it's worth (because I never tried B8/yellow), but I'm happy I switched at this point.

[was385]

Originally Posted by FT-86 SpeedFactory

This is a great set-up for someone who wants a simple and effective set-up that handles and rides great as well. Great choice, and nice write up.

Definitely going to be a really solid hassle-free setup that will be more than capable for everything I need it to do including hopefully some track days this year or next.

And thanks again for providing the springs. Always a great buying experience.

[Turkish]

I have to agree with the handling characteristics, I'm also on B8/Tarmacs although I swapped from full oem suspension. Significant decrease in body roll, it is unlikely you would need strut bars with this suspension (imo).

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[was385]

Originally Posted by Turkish

I have to agree with the handling characteristics, I'm also on B8/Tarmacs although I swapped from full oem suspension. Significant decrease in body roll, it is unlikely you would need strut bars with this suspension (imo).

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Full stock to this was night and day I'm sure. I don't have a strut bar or plans to get one but I'm very curious to see how the bigger front sway plays with this setup. I had some issues with under steer and the a bit of oversteer when camber plates went on. Initial thoughts are that it feels incredibly neutral with everything but I'll have to wait until this weekend to really decide.


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[Turkish]

Originally Posted by was385

Full stock to this was night and day I'm sure. I don't have a strut bar or plans to get one but I'm very curious to see how the bigger front sway plays with this setup. I had some issues with under steer and the a bit of oversteer when camber plates went on. Initial thoughts are that it feels incredibly neutral with everything but I'll have to wait until this weekend to really decide.


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I'm -1.2° in the front with just the oem crash bolts, the car feels almost neutral with just a bit of understeer left during autocross. When I buy new tires, I'm going to install camber bolts in the other bolt slot up front and go for between -2.0° and -2.5° up front to play with the -2.0° I have in the rear with the oem lca's. It's perfectly neutral in daily driving, but like I mentioned just a slight bit of understeer when driving at 110% balls out. I'm interested to see your autocross experience. What are your alignment specs?

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[was385]

Originally Posted by Turkish

I'm -1.2° in the front with just the oem crash bolts, the car feels almost neutral with just a bit of understeer left during autocross. When I buy new tires, I'm going to install camber bolts in the other bolt slot up front and go for between -2.0° and -2.5° up front to play with the -2.0° I have in the rear with the oem lca's. It's perfectly neutral in daily driving, but like I mentioned just a slight bit of understeer when driving at 110% balls out. I'm interested to see your autocross experience. What are your alignment specs?

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-3 degrees camber up front and -1.7/-2.0 in the back along with 1/8" total toe out in the front and toe in for the rear.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Thanks for the excellent and thorough review!

- Andy

[was385]

My plan was to write an autocross-specific review quite a bit earlier but I didn't feel it would be a fair review after my first even with them a couple of weeks ago. Despite feeling better, my times were just a bit off the pace of the guys I normally go head-to-head with and I just didn't have the grip that I was used to or expected. I drove away from the event hoping that the Bilsteins breaking in some more would give me the performance I had hoped for.

Today I was finally able to get that second event in with the Bilsteins/Tarmacs and I can absolutely say that the Bilsteins need to break in before you see anything close to their full potential. After finishing 4th out of 4 in STX the first time (0.5 seconds from 3rd and 33rd in PAX), I took 1st in STX by almost 0.5 seconds and a top ten PAX finish (still waiting on the official PAX standings). The suspension is quite a bit softer now and really allowed the tires to work, resulting in far more grip than the first time. I'm a fairly aggressive driver and the higher front spring rates were able to respond when I threw the car into corners. With RCE camber plates (-3 degrees) and a strano front sway, the car has become incredibly neutral with the ability to rotate the car exactly as much as I want with very small throttle inputs while cornering.

It took some patience but the Bilsteins/Tarmacs are exactly what I hoped for when I bought them. They're a great autox/street setup for the money and miles ahead of the low-end coilover options I've ridden on in the same price range. If this experience has taught me anything, it's that stiff doesn't mean fast, which IMO is generally how these cheaper options are judged by people who buy them. At just north of $1000, you're going to have to make some pretty big sacrifices on any suspension setup. I decided to forego adjustability (height and damping) for performance and quality. Anyone who says you can get everything at that price point is probably trying to sell you something or doesn't really know what they're talking about. And as a bonus to everything, now that they've broken in they're a little bit softer around town (though still not as comfortable as stock or RCE yellows), but much more comfortable on the highway. There's a pretty substantial bump on my way home from work, where I used to have to slow down to 40 mph for and still winced before going over and now I can go over at 60 fairly comfortably. The damping on high speed bumps and ruts is miles ahead of everything else I've had on the car.

If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to try to answer them.

[Ubersuber]

Actually, the B6 (HD) Bilsteins transform the handling of the stock springs and roll bars. Unless you just have to lower the car just get a set of Bilstein B6 (HD in America) and the car is just about perfect.

The stock rear bump stops are too long. I cut mine down by 1/2 inch but I'm looking into getting a pair of TRD rear bump stops they supply with their lowering springs. Hard to tell from photos but they look about perfect to eliminate (or at least reduce) that pogo effect from the rear springs.

[JesseE]

Originally Posted by was385

-3 degrees camber up front and -1.7/-2.0 in the back along with 1/8" total toe out in the front and toe in for the rear.

Having your alignment set with toe out for small track/auto x is fine... But people should not be running toe out on street cars that see highway speeds, High speed stability greatly suffers with toe out.

I have always preferred 0 toe all 4 corners in all my cars.