Do any of you road racers or time trial guys use a strut tower bar? - Page 4 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

nikitopo · 08-30-2016, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Complex geometry doesn't change the basic fundamental mounting points. A Porsche is still a strut + lower control arm, and a Ferrari is still a double wishbone.

You can check here where the forces are going with a double wishbone:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S6H7ZdzBfE"]Strut Bar - Explained - YouTube[/ame]

gramicci101 · 08-30-2016, 04:57 PM

Rather listen to someone who's graduated high school already, thanks.

CSG Mike · 08-30-2016, 05:19 PM

I guess this car needed a strut tower brace. It's a Porsche GT4.

Pat · 08-30-2016, 05:24 PM

Whoa. Do you know the story?

CSG Mike · 08-30-2016, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat

Whoa. Do you know the story?

Went over a larger berm at Thunderhill, but not one that I would consider something like the red berms of death at Laguna...

rice_classic · 08-30-2016, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Speaking of transferring points of failure and spot welds coming apart, check this out.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105791

Because of that, if I were to buy a strut bar I would buy one that mounts all the way around the strut using all three bolts, not one that uses the existing strut brace points.

Whoa.. "Your honor, I'd like to present Exhibit A".

Joking aside. Stuff like this is why seem welding is desirable.

nikitopo · 08-31-2016, 02:44 AM

Porsche 911s don't have in front a double wishbone suspension. If someone changes the spring rates and go x2 or x3 stiffness, then he is fool enough to race without having extra bracing or other reinforcements. Personally, I' m not a Porsche fan and I don't care what someone should do in these cars. I KNOW what I should do in Subaru cars. And I am not saying I am smarter than others. I am just following the leaders. Mainly STi and a few others.

CSG Mike · 08-31-2016, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Porsche 911s don't have in front a double wishbone suspension. If someone changes the spring rates and go x2 or x3 stiffness, then he is fool enough to race without having extra bracing or other reinforcements. Personally, I' m not a Porsche fan and I don't care what someone should do in these cars. I KNOW what I should do in Subaru cars. And I am not saying I am smarter than others. I am just following the leaders. Mainly STi and a few others.

Changing the spring rates doesn't change the load experienced in the same area.

What it does change, is the spring constant, which means less compression. The load itself is unchanged.

jmimac351 · 08-31-2016, 04:34 PM

Listen to CSG Mike. I've watched 2 other BRZ track cars owned by close friends with, literally, a few thousand miles on each car at Sebring alone, not to mention tracks all around the country. These cars are not babied. Neither car has had an issue that a strut tower bar would address. It's a waste of money. Period.

stevesnj · 08-31-2016, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

This is a bad example to compare a Typical style bar too.. The TRD uses different mounting points and brackets that are a lot stronger than what a typical bar uses......

I wasn't comparing, I was just stating what TRD is doing.

ROADRACER · 09-01-2016, 11:25 PM

Changing the spring rates doesn't change the load experienced in the same area.

What it does change, is the spring constant, which means less compression. The load itself is unchanged. __________________

So are you saying stiffer springs will not increase the force exerted on the strut tower?

OkieSnuffBox · 09-02-2016, 09:17 AM

What it changes is the speed of weight transfer.

Sleepless · 09-02-2016, 12:55 PM

And the force over time. So, the tower will see higher forces with a stiffer suspension over the same lap.

Serious hairsplitting and discussion for a really cheap device which does what it is supposed to do; reduce chassis flex at the struts and distribute loads between the two towers.

Pat · 09-02-2016, 01:24 PM

Yeah, I think I'll pass on getting one now.
But I do wonder, after the chassis has 150,000 hard miles on it, would the strut tower brace be more noticeable and effective?

08-31-2016, 04:34 PM	#51
jmimac351 Chin Chief Instructor Join Date: Jan 2015 Drives: 2015 Ford F150 Aluminium Couch Location: Apopka, FL Posts: 134 Thanks: 38 Thanked 104 Times in 54 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s)	Listen to CSG Mike. I've watched 2 other BRZ track cars owned by close friends with, literally, a few thousand miles on each car at Sebring alone, not to mention tracks all around the country. These cars are not babied. Neither car has had an issue that a strut tower bar would address. It's a waste of money. Period. __________________ 2015 Subaru BRZ 2008 NC Miata with 2.5 swap Building 1963 289 Cobra Le Mans Replica Cobra Replica Build Pics Chin Chief Instructor www.ChinTrackDays.com

09-02-2016, 12:55 PM	#55
Sleepless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Drives: 2014 BRZ Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 639 Thanks: 299 Thanked 392 Times in 229 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s)	And the force over time. So, the tower will see higher forces with a stiffer suspension over the same lap. Serious hairsplitting and discussion for a really cheap device which does what it is supposed to do; reduce chassis flex at the struts and distribute loads between the two towers. __________________ Pete 14 Track BRZ (Build Thread) cmslaptimer.com

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08-30-2016, 04:57 PM	#44
gramicci101 Off Topic Join Date: Feb 2014 Drives: 2014 Subaru BRZ Limited Location: Vegas, baby! Posts: 4,610 Thanks: 2,369 Thanked 4,243 Times in 2,170 Posts Mentioned: 43 Post(s)	Rather listen to someone who's graduated high school already, thanks.

08-30-2016, 05:19 PM	#45
CSG Mike Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: S2000 CR Location: Orange County Posts: 14,564 Thanks: 8,942 Thanked 14,213 Times in 6,856 Posts Mentioned: 970 Post(s)	I guess this car needed a strut tower brace. It's a Porsche GT4.

08-31-2016, 02:44 AM	#49
nikitopo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Drives: '15 BRZ RA Location: Greece Posts: 3,787 Thanks: 2,417 Thanked 1,947 Times in 1,263 Posts Mentioned: 29 Post(s)	Porsche 911s don't have in front a double wishbone suspension. If someone changes the spring rates and go x2 or x3 stiffness, then he is fool enough to race without having extra bracing or other reinforcements. Personally, I' m not a Porsche fan and I don't care what someone should do in these cars. I KNOW what I should do in Subaru cars. And I am not saying I am smarter than others. I am just following the leaders. Mainly STi and a few others.

09-01-2016, 11:25 PM	#53
ROADRACER Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Drives: unlimited cheap build N/A track car Location: TN Posts: 101 Thanks: 12 Thanked 56 Times in 32 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s)	Changing the spring rates doesn't change the load experienced in the same area. What it does change, is the spring constant, which means less compression. The load itself is unchanged. __________________ So are you saying stiffer springs will not increase the force exerted on the strut tower?

09-02-2016, 09:17 AM	#54
OkieSnuffBox Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Drives: '23 BRZ Limited Location: OKC, OK Posts: 2,092 Thanks: 683 Thanked 1,339 Times in 762 Posts Mentioned: 9 Post(s)	What it changes is the speed of weight transfer.

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