Automatics... Can they be built?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Filibig

Awesome thank you for all your help I will check in to everything you guys linked today. Its my dd and with boost I'm just trying to get 300 to 350. 350 being my end goal hopefully. Not 500 to 600 hp drag car lol. would be cool to get flex fuel on it just cause and do one run to see what the most power I can get for shits and giggles but that's about it. The kit I'm kinda set on is the full blow stage 1. They have a whole bunch of heat wrap option and turbo blankets ceramic coating and all that good stuff but do u guys recommend spending the extra money on it? As well as injectors and fuel pumps. Is it good to get every option with the kit or do I get wraps map sensors injectors somewhere else that's cheaper and better? also thank you ort895 appreciate it im new to the forum or forums in general that's why I just posted it instead of filtering through so many threads. To be honest I'm surprised actually it wasn't bad u guys are chill. I was expecting to get nothing but hate posts on how I messed up and should have gone with a manual and how I'm a disgrace for driving auto haha.

Why 350 goal on a DD? Not a slam this is a legit question.
If you are going to do it do it right the first time. Don't try to save pennies by buying bits and pieces here and there. If you are asking about things such as wrap you may not be at a level where doing this extensive a mad it a good idea.


Oh and to the rest of your comment about an auto and forums:

[justatroll]

Here you go:


http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Re...lites_999.html


"The Hugoniot Elastic Limit (the maximum shock a material can take without irreversibly deforming) of a 1.5-1.8 mm-thick piece of SAM2X5-630 was measured at 11.76 +/- 1.26 giga-Pascals.
By comparison, stainless steel has an elastic limit of 0.2 giga-Pascals, while that of tungsten carbide (a high-strength ceramic used in military armor) is 4.5 giga-Pascals."


So the stuff is 3-4 times stronger than Tungsten Carbide

[brzaapi]

Tcoat is asking a good question and making some good points. But it is clear you are very new to this. We all were once, and I myself am still quite new to the world of tracking my car(s).

But its more important to answer Tcoats questions. Not for him, but for you. I get you want a certain power level (in time you will learn this is not a factor for DD), I get you want to have a good hero run on the dyno (big risk for a newcomer , and on your DD car). But let the more experienced guys find the limits of a car and learn from the mistakes of people who do it for a living. Its kind of their job to push things.


As always, its your car, your money...do what you will. But a lot of us have been down this path and have learned a few things. I would suggest keeping your power levels below 300, you can always add later. I would suggest a SC kit for multiple reasons.

But if you must go turbo, FBM is fine for a DD. LJ is a great guy and can answer your questions about heat wrap and injectors etc. If LJ says you need it then likely you do. LJ is not going to steer you wrong. And, regardless turbo kits (and SC too) have many possible pitfalls that can make your experience really suck. But, I would learn about the questions you asked. Yes it will take some time. And you have to start somewhere and pop your cherry. But I would minimalize my financial risk and headache factor. Why do i say that, because i have made the mistake of starting a project I didnt fully understand, and shooting for a goal HP that I really didnt need.

Keep learning and good luck on what you decide. Stay positive and open, and you can get some great guidance and info around here.

[Filibig]

Thanks guys that's why I'm here. I'm trying to learn and get your guys opinion and knowledge and to see if others have done what I'm trying to do and work of that. No means am I trying to do an eBay/pep boy build over here trying to save pennies I'm just trying to get the right stuff and the best stuff the first time around to avoid doing something wrong like that. Thanks for the word Brzaapi I appreciate u understand where I'm coming from and words on encouragement.

[Filibig]

Originally Posted by justatroll

Here you go:


http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Re...lites_999.html


"The Hugoniot Elastic Limit (the maximum shock a material can take without irreversibly deforming) of a 1.5-1.8 mm-thick piece of SAM2X5-630 was measured at 11.76 +/- 1.26 giga-Pascals.
By comparison, stainless steel has an elastic limit of 0.2 giga-Pascals, while that of tungsten carbide (a high-strength ceramic used in military armor) is 4.5 giga-Pascals."


So the stuff is 3-4 times stronger than Tungsten Carbide

That's awesome justatroll... "You think that new metal will fit on my Honda?" - Moog MCM

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Filibig

Awesome thank you for all your help I will check in to everything you guys linked today. Its my dd and with boost I'm just trying to get 300 to 350. 350 being my end goal hopefully. Not 500 to 600 hp drag car lol. would be cool to get flex fuel on it just cause and do one run to see what the most power I can get for shits and giggles but that's about it. The kit I'm kinda set on is the full blow stage 1. They have a whole bunch of heat wrap option and turbo blankets ceramic coating and all that good stuff but do u guys recommend spending the extra money on it? As well as injectors and fuel pumps. Is it good to get every option with the kit or do I get wraps map sensors injectors somewhere else that's cheaper and better? also thank you ort895 appreciate it im new to the forum or forums in general that's why I just posted it instead of filtering through so many threads. To be honest I'm surprised actually it wasn't bad u guys are chill. I was expecting to get nothing but hate posts on how I messed up and should have gone with a manual and how I'm a disgrace for driving auto haha.

Well pushing 300-350 may be an issue more for your bottom end as well, you've honestly just got to figure out your goals, it may actually be safer and more reliable to just do a super charger. Also note, to get 300-350 at the wheel you're going to have to push much more than normal manual guys do because of drivetrain loss, this is really well documented on our cars. A more realistic goal would be something like a jackson racing supercharger with oil cooler for 270-280 hp, and then beef up the transmission cooling, that would be a legitimate DD that's reliable. For me my auto build is almost done, all it needs now is the UEL to be installed, axleback ts pro-1, and 4.88 gears, and maybe in the future an OEM oil cooler mod, we each have different tastes for me as long as it feels fast and is well balanced I'm cool with it, and mind you 4.88 on a stock auto make it slightly faster at launch to 60 than the manual

[Wayno]

AT drivetrain loss is between 0 and 3.5%. 10 HP @ 300 is insignificant.

[Filibig]

To be honest I do not mind a supercharger. I have actually considered it and looked in to it. All around on paper it is my best option it takes care of everything I need and i can use UEL headers with it which is amazing but there's just something about the sounds and feels of a turbo i just love and always wanted it. I go back and fourth with turbo and SC trust me its a daily battle I am not opposed to it my main thing is $. there both the same damn price which i don't understand and the most you can do with a sc that i have seen is about 250 maybe 280 and 300 to 330 with e85 which is perfect but your paying the same price as the turbo. just wish i knew some people around where i lived that had a turbo and a SC that i can go on a ride along and see how its like and what they say about it.

[brzaapi]

2 quick things about FI cost, and these are generalizations (but usually true)

1. Going FI will always cost more than you think. Especially for newcomers. Budget for the kit and the add 25% to 100% more on top of it.

2. Turbo will require more money than SC.


You want fun and reliable - buy a header and tune and be done. No FI.

You want more fun and reliable-ish - go FI and stay around 250whp to 300whp.

You want a lot of fun in the beginning, less reliability in the end, and likely learn an expensive lesson along the way - Go well over the 300whp range.


I haved owned 3 BRZs:

- 2013 MT FBM kit with 407whp E85
- 2015 MT full bolt ons, but no FI
- 2015 MT bolt ons, and also ran with ESC (electric supercharger)
- I have also AXed 2 BRZs with Innovate SC kits.


I have learned a lot of lessons in modding and running the BRZs. Expert, no i am not. But for a weekend warrior i have learned some great lessons. I am not saying dont go the turbo route, cause how would you know if its right for you until you do it. Right! But please realize whatever money you put into it, is basically flushed down the toilet. So be sure that if you spend $5000.00 <cough cough> $7500 <Cough> maybe $10k <cough> that this is what you really want.

Personally, the BRZ is great driving around at any power of about 300whp or less. Once you want more than 300whp, you should at least consider moving to other cars. Cause above 300whp there are diminishing returns and issues stack up exponentially.

You can have a BRZ, or you can have a lot of power. But if you want a BRZ with a lot of power then get ready for love/hate relationship.

To some degree this applies to all cars.

[Filibig]

Brzappi which one did you enjoy the most and had the least headaches with from all those BRZ you had?

[RichardsFRS]

Originally Posted by ort895

Heaven forbid the man wants to have a technical conversation of his own. All you forum police truly deserve medals along with your protective helmets.
As stated SSP is who you want to look into, however, I don't really see the point of really going into it unless you are looking for crazy HP.

Awesome!

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by Filibig

Brzappi which one did you enjoy the most and had the least headaches with from all those BRZ you had?

Well from a HP only perspective (meaning we are leaving out brakes, suspension, etc.) I actually believe the car is great with a good header and tune. However, the ESC is a great upgrade with the least amount of risk and biggest amount of forgiveness. It is easy for anyone to install. And the power is good.

In the last two years i have become quite an Autocross and track fiend. So I have shifted from the guy with 500hp evos and turboed Caymans, to the guy who is learning how to use every horse...instead of having 100 to 200 more horses than i really need. Because i dont daily my car and i have to worry about heat and maintenance on a level that a DD guy doesnt have too, i prefer a good NA or SC setup. Tracking and turboes are a hard thing to pull off in this car unless you are well beyond our (mine and yours) racing level.

But I bet you want to hear what i thought of my Turbo kit making 407WHP.

It was fast in a straight line. I ran 265s in the back and i still couldnt launch properly. I had to start all street shenanigans from a roll. Now between new wheels and tires. A new clutch. A full FBM kit to include all exhaust peices. All wraps. Ecutek. Tunes. I had spent near 14,000.00. And you could spend more, i promise.

So I could terrorize vettes a little bit, but honestly after a month or so I decided i was "over" chasing power. Power had become boring. Mind you it took 3 High HP builds for me to get over my power chase. But i did. And I decided to approach all my project cars a little differently. The turbo is fun. But i got bored with it. PLus i didnt do any of the work myself. Since then i have done 100% of the work on my 2nd BRZ, and 90% of the work on my 3rd BRZ. On the street those two cars can not terrorize vettes. Big whoop. But, on the autocross course I have embarrassed quite a few of them. I can say that the FBM kit is good, turbo placement gets questioned alot. I can say working with LJ is very easy and he is helpful and cares. But i know this because him and i had to work on little tuning issues for the first 3 weeks or so. It was pretty constant. But he stayed with me till it was worked out. So if youre not comfortable with plugging a laptop up to your car and working to help solve little issues. Then i would suggest skipping the turbo.


I could go on and on. So to come full circle. If you need to scratch that turbo itch. Then scratch it. But if you just want to add some power and be smart about it. Start smaller and cheaper and learn about your car. You may not be the baddest thing on the streets. But hopefully you learn sooner than i did, it doesnt matter. And YES. Someone is always faster.

I vote for a good NA or SC setup for you. If you can get your hands on an ESC, I would say go for that first. A perfectly easy fix for good power on a DD BRZ FRS. I vote turbo last, unless you just have to go there. If you want 350whp, i would start with a different car. Hey C5 vettes are a great buy. The BRZ doesnt need anymore than that for DD( i say less) unless you are building a dyno queen, racing or just a pure gearhead who loves to tinker.

Again, just my opinion. Really think about what will make you happy.

[Norville Rogers]

Originally Posted by go_a_way1

Well you didnt have to waste your time (or my time) writing this post if you actually took the time and searched. Yes there are parts you can get. SSP is the company you should look into if I remember right.

Perhaps a sign that you have been on this forum too long?

[go_a_way1]

Originally Posted by Norville Rogers

Perhaps a sign that you have been on this forum too long?

Far too long my friend.... I have so many hours logged here its sad lol!

edit: I was probably in a bad mood that day. There have been a lot of simple dumb questions being asked recently that could have been answered with google.