Stock heat shield vs Ceramic coated?

[BigFatFlip]

Just gonna put in my personal experience, albeit its based on my bike and not my car (although I do have coated JDLs coming soon). My pipes started out with a heat shield stock, took them off and got the pipes coated (for looks), put them on and they were still quite hot on my leg, so I wrapped them in DEI wrap, which felt much better, about the same as when the heat shield was on. So if we are talking about "cool to the touch" heat wrap > or = stock heat shield > ceramic coating

I guess I can take some temps in my engine compartment while stock and compare to after I install my headers.

[G-awesome]

I got the jdl catted headers and didn't bother getting it coated. No over heating issues so far! My car is a DD though with the occasional spirited driving.

[CCPcoatings]

Originally Posted by deuncos

Sorry if this is a noob question, I'm planning on getting the JDL UEL catted headers and was wondering if I should go ahead and get the thermal coating along with it. Seems like the majority of posts I've read all say yes, but is the thermal coating on par, better, or slightly worse at reducing temps when comparing it to the stock heat shield?

The factory heat shield is just that, a barrier to break the radiated heat between the two surfaces. Ceramic coating will do both. It will keep heat inside the pipes and ultimately dissipate heat permeated heat from its surface faster than that of the raw substrate. This is especially helpful with any SS pipes as they retain a lot of heat at their surface.

Best case scenario is coat the pipes and utilize any type or wrap or shield as a back-up if needed.

[CCPcoatings]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I wonder this very same thing but am afraid to dig out my heat transfer book. Which was the higher priority? I don't think the bellows can be ceramic coated and I also am guessing the ceramic coating is cheaper than a complex assembly.

The bellows is a must for longevity.

No matter what system, the heat has to go somewhere. Maybe the OEM heat shield is more of a heat management sytem. Which heat transfer mode is the most significant? Is it radiated, or convective?

so many questions...

Yes you can coat both corrugated and mesh bellows.....

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by CCPcoatings

Yes you can coat both corrugated and mesh bellows.....

Then ceramic coating must not be as effective as encasing the header in a box or it would be the standard. No? It's certainly much cheaper.

[redlined600]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

-___-

I assume the oem heat shield is the most effective because that method has been the industry standard for a long time. Not as long as you've been driving, of course. I've seen how they did it back in your day. Museums and stuff.

Heat shields are cheap. I'd put money on ceramic coating, even at the oem cost level, being considerably more than a couple of pieces of stamped metal.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by redlined600

Heat shields are cheap. I'd put money on ceramic coating, even at the oem cost level, being considerably more than a couple of pieces of stamped metal.

There is no way several stamped parts requiring hand assembly with additional fasteners is cheaper than baking a ceramic coating onto a naked header.

[CCPcoatings]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

There is no way several stamped parts requiring hand assembly with additional fasteners is cheaper than baking a ceramic coating onto a naked header.

Depends how you define cheaper. There's a lot more labor and handling involved on thermally degreasing pipes, blasting them, coating them, baking them. then having them installed in such a way that they don't get scratched / damaged along the way. More importantly, doing this in a mass produced manner which is VERY uncommon.

Welding, stamping and most assembly can be done by robots........

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by CCPcoatings

Depends how you define cheaper. There's a lot more labor and handling involved on thermally degreasing pipes, blasting them, coating them, baking them. then having them installed in such a way that they don't get scratched / damaged along the way. More importantly, doing this in a mass produced manner which is VERY uncommon.

Welding, stamping and most assembly can be done by robots........

On a large enough scale, surface prep and finish processes are completely mechanized. None of that is exotic.

BUT... you bring up a very good point about the durability of the finish. Stamped heat shields are assembled once and completely forgotten. How well do the ceramic coatings hold up to the elements?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by deuncos

Sorry if this is a noob question, I'm planning on getting the JDL UEL catted headers and was wondering if I should go ahead and get the thermal coating along with it. Seems like the majority of posts I've read all say yes, but is the thermal coating on par, better, or slightly worse at reducing temps when comparing it to the stock heat shield?

My Fujitsubo catted header coated was at least 20 degrees cooler than the stock one w/ heat shield, as far as engine bay temps were concerned.

Checked w/ a thermal gun.

-alex

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

-___-

I assume the oem heat shield is the most effective because that method has been the industry standard for a long time. Not as long as you've been driving, of course. I've seen how they did it back in your day. Museums and stuff.

Now THAT brings on a back-in-the-day story ............

Background (for the young-ens) the old Fords had a "heat shield" that fit over the exhaust manifold and was ducted into the passenger compartment.

I remember, when I was a kid, during the winter, I would sit on the floor of our Model "A" so I could feel the warm air coming out of the hole in the firewall.

If my parents would have had to buckle me into a child seat in the back seat of the car ...... I would have surely froze to death.......



humfrz

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Now THAT brings on a back-in-the-day story ............

Background (for the young-ens) the old Fords had a "heat shield" that fit over the exhaust manifold and was ducted into the passenger compartment.

I remember, when I was a kid, during the winter, I would sit on the floor of our Model "A" so I could feel the warm air coming out of the hole in the firewall.

If my parents would have had to buckle me into a child seat in the back seat of the car ...... I would have surely froze to death.......



humfrz

Look at those beautiful castings and that distributor! The lack of need for insulation on the plug leads. Elegant solutions.

[Gear_One_Performance]

Honestly we've found the best thing for heat retention/shielding is DEI header wrap, While it has some downsides it works the best for keeping the engine bay cool in our endurance car.

[churchx]

Imho if it matters that a lot, one can think also of alternatives. For example - installing hood's louvers by TrackSpec from CSG or by Velox from FT86speedfactory. They also help getting temps down.
As for me - imho header's heat insulation need is a bit overblown. Many run without any wrapping, coating or shielding just fine. For track use i'd rather invest into oil cooler rad.