For stockish power Nitto NT01's R-Comps overkill?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Hoosier R6 is no longer made, and now replaced by the R7 (Or SM7 in 205/50/15), and has a much better competitive lifespan than the R6. FYI

I've only heard this and I'm on a few different road race forums. Since they've only been out for 6-8 months I don't think the sample pool is anywhere near large enough to trust it. I have not seen a single set on a car up here so I'll wait until I know someone who I trust is a exceptional driver give me their opinion. The Spec Pinata guys will be on them this year and I know some of the fastest guys so I will get their feedback mid season and look at their data before I drop the coin.

I simply can't justify the cost of the being an early adopter anymore. I did so with the R888 and the Goodyear and both were garbage (for racing) so there was a lot of money wasted. The R7 would have to be a 20+ heat cycle tire without performance loss AND have more than a .2 second laptime delta over the RR for me to switch but since I run the SM7 size I'm lucky I don't have spend $240/tire.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's a significant difference...

Exactly what I wast thinking.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

but since I run the SM7 size I'm lucky I don't have spend $240/tire.

I thought I read somewhere that the R7/SM7 were actually going to be different this year unlike the R6/SM6 being the same tire.

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

The Spec Pinata guys will be on them this year and I know some of the fastest guys so I will get their feedback mid season and look at their data before I drop the coin.

I simply can't justify the cost of the being an early adopter anymore. I did so with the R888 and the Goodyear and both were garbage (for racing) so there was a lot of money wasted. The R7 would have to be a 20+ heat cycle tire without performance loss AND have more than a .2 second laptime delta over the RR for me to switch but since I run the SM7 size I'm lucky I don't have spend $240/tire.

Spec Miata was on SM7 last year, and will be again this year. (I think SM6 and SM7 were both legal in 2014, but SM7 is the faster tire)
SM7 is not quite the same thing as the R7.
SM7 has the same structure design as the R6, but the new compound of the R7. So while SM6 and R6 tires in 205/50/15 (only size SM6/7 is available) were literally the exact same tire, SM7 is still a slightly faster tire than the previous R6, and SM6 tire due to the new compound. The major differences I've noticed from several laps on each of these tires is middle and especially later laps in the race. While SM6 tires on our car would fall off by well over a second late in the race, that difference is now about half a second on SM7's. Actual R7's in any size will be faster yet yielding the advantages of Hoosier's new tire design which is supposedly lighter, and offers less rolling resistance. If you're running 205/50/15, I have no idea why you'd take a Toyo RR ($175) over a Hoosier SM7 ($171), as these two tires should be closer to a solid second slower on an eighty second/lap track.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by glamcem

NT01s are not significantly faster/stickier tires compared to RS3 or AD08R, don't let the Treadwear ratings fool you (MPSC2 is a good example IMO) ..people typically see a 1-1.5sec difference in a 2 min laps and this could be due to confidence level or consistency or it could be many other factors,..

Just for clarity, I wouldn't put a novice on RS3's or AD08R's either. I'd suggest novice drivers stock up on used primacy tires that everyone is basically giving away until they develop better skills at the limit.

[rice_classic]

EDIT: apologies to OP for threadjack/off topic but it appeared earlier that your questions were answered.

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Spec Miata was on SM7 last year, and will be again this year. (I think SM6 and SM7 were both legal in 2014, but SM7 is the faster tire)
SM7 is not quite the same thing as the R7.
SM7 has the same structure design as the R6, but the new compound of the R7. So while SM6 and R6 tires in 205/50/15 (only size SM6/7 is available) were literally the exact same tire, SM7 is still a slightly faster tire than the previous R6, and SM6 tire due to the new compound. The major differences I've noticed from several laps on each of these tires is middle and especially later laps in the race. While SM6 tires on our car would fall off by well over a second late in the race, that difference is now about half a second on SM7's. Actual R7's in any size will be faster yet yielding the advantages of Hoosier's new tire design which is supposedly lighter, and offers less rolling resistance. If you're running 205/50/15, I have no idea why you'd take a Toyo RR ($175) over a Hoosier SM7 ($171), as these two tires should be closer to a solid second slower on an eighty second/lap track.

Good to know the SM7 isn't the same as the R7 in construction.

Your post is exactly why I'm waiting for folks I know personally and trust to give me their feedback. There's SO many different opinions from different levels of drivers. Many reports is that the R7 is just slightly slower than the R6 but doesn't fall off. Other report it's slightly faster but now falls off worse. Some Spec Miata guys have said that it's slightly faster because they can be slid more like the RA1 while other say they prefer the SM6/R6 especially at certain tracks.

Hoosier themselves have admitted that the R7 is a new construction and compound and that the compound is the same compound as is used in the Continental Tire series tires.

People who run the Continental tire series have said those tires (compound) are something awful in terms of performance fall off. They are good for about 6 laps, fall off from there and after 5-6 cycles they get so bad drivers have actually thought their suspension was failing until they put new tires on.

So with so much varying information about the "7's" compound characteristics, speed, longevity you can understand why I would spend $175 per tire for a tire I know is as fast as an SM6 on my car and will be so for 25 heat cycles. Until the SM7 has proven to do the same I can't just the financial risk of doing my own testing. It's a lot cheaper for people I know and trust to do that testing for me. You understand.

Finally, the RR isn't the RA1, the RR is quite a bit faster and more stable. The gap between the R6/SM6 and RR is practically negligible in my testing and data shows sustained G's are equal and laptimes within 1/10th of a second.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG David

RC1 and NT01 are good R-comps. NT01 takes time to heat up but does hold up to some overdriving. RC1 works from cold and doesn't tolerate overdriving as much. Grip levels are pretty equal. RC1 is near silent on the street. NT01 is noisy. Both tires suck in rain.

of course they do, that's what Pilot Supersports are for

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by glamcem

of course they do, that's what Pilot Supersports are for

I just use Continental DWS tires. Snow, rain, dry...don't care. MPG is awesome too. Lateral grip sucks, however, if you get good angle, it holds pretty well...

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This is fact. It lower the cornering limits of the car, so that you can spend more time dancing around the limits of adhesion, so that you can hone your skill at dancing around that fine line.

No it's not . that's still an opinion... there's not a single evidence/research showing that X tire hinders driver's ability learn more than Y tire, the important thing to remember is that each tire is different and tire technology came a long way (thanks to competition) ..new MPSC2 is a good example, it's not only better in dry but also in wet according to the Michelin.. tire performance category and Treadwear ratings are good but they don't really tell us much..he was asking if the "NT01s are overkill for stockish car" "and my opinion is" they are not, I never said it's the proven fact

Are you as comfortable in the wet as in the dry? I bet you aren't. There's a myriad of excuses, but if you are comfortable with dancing around that grip limit, then being in the wet doesn't affect your ability to continue that dance.

You'll notice that a very common statement is that wet days are spectacular for car control practice. Why? Because the limit of grip is dropped dramatically, allowing you practice car control at a lower, safer speed. Using less grippy tires accomplishes the same thing, in the dry.

Although I don't understand how it relates to the topic, to answer your question, yes, I am comfortable in the wet, and snow and ice too.. since where I grew up we had hard snowy and icy winters and I was having fun with it, not spending my days in CALI , I had chance to be in some amateur rally events too, back in 95-96 IIRC, what were you doing back then? playing nintendos? (just kidding)

we are not really discussing car control skills and how you can achieve those skills, though... because I don't see how they're related to the topic..
any car guy with a common sense should know the best way to reach those skills are spending sometime in either rallye course and/or drifting, attending lapping days with shittier tires are the most inefficient way to build those skills, IMO..then again that's not what OP asked..

most of the time, when a member asks for a suggestion, thread becomes a "driver education clinic" even if that's not the intended outcome maybe it's because everyone is so confident with his/hers skill level and feel that they should share their opinions..

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG David

I just use Continental DWS tires. Snow, rain, dry...don't care. MPG is awesome too. Lateral grip sucks, however, if you get good angle, it holds pretty well...

I heard nothing but good thing about those tires and will probably get them for DD when the stock ones are gone,

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CSG David

I just use Continental DWS tires. Snow, rain, dry...don't care. MPG is awesome too. Lateral grip sucks, however, if you get good angle, it holds pretty well...

Haven't tried the DWS, but I did have a set of DW on my '06 Miata. Really, really impressed with everything about them.


Good grip, quiet, comfortable, cheap.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

R888s + 50° temps + nice wet track = exciting track day.


Nearly impossible to get them to heat up until it dried out in the afternoon. Was a cool experience to go from wet to intermediate to dry in one day.

and R888s are supposedly one of the good ones in the wet
going to track days with two sets actually make a lot of sense IMO, especially for those who live in Northwest, Florida or similar places where there can be some afternoon showers...

I am thinking to get either PSS or Continental DWS for that purpose, I always loved how the PSS handle rain in my previous cars ..

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by glamcem

and R888s are supposedly one of the good ones in the wet

Slap the next person that tells you that.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Slap the next person that tells you that.

in fact, today I will have a coffee with the guy who told me that it'll be a fun afternoon haha