Why Scion FR-S Sales Have Plunged

[PhantomX]

One of the things we have to factor in this "decline" is Scion's monospec model. There is no trimlines, just a base for each model in Scion's line-up and their yearly special editions (Release Series, 10 Series, Monogram Series). They expect the target market to personalize whichever model vehicle they pick. Unfortunately, TMS/Scion does not pick the barebones trimline that Toyota in Japan provides, but more of the mid-level trimline.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Guilty as charged...

Ahhh but waiting until warranty is almost up and having it done once is not the same as some of the guys that are on their 5th or 6th because they think that the new ones are somehow different.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by Defuser

YUP!

I've had more than one sportscar. Someone above posted most people only own one in their lifetime? Poppycock!

1980 Z28 Camaro - 3,494 lb.s Heavy. This isn't going to suprise anyone.

1988 RX-7 - 2,701 (not bad!)

2008 G35 Coupe - 3,485 (price to be paid for a "luxurious" interior)

I was actually suprised that the Z28 weighed about the same the G35.

Edit: By the way, the 2015 Mustang V-6 (MT) wieghs 3,526!

That was me that posted that.

My personal list has been MG Midget times 2, MGA, MGB, Datsun 240Z, TR7, Miata , and now the Frisbee. In my mind, no way that a sports car can have a backseat or weigh 3,000 lbs. That is a GT.

I, however, am not deluded enough to think that I am the "Norm"

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Defuser

...
1980 Z28 Camaro - 3,494 lb.s Heavy. This isn't going to suprise anyone.

I had a 1983 Z28 Camaro with an aftermarket Targa top, and thought I was on top of the world. It's specs make the FR-S look like a supercar in comparison. Maybe that's why I don't think the FR-S is slow:


Chevrolet Camaro Z28 5.0L V-8 5-speed, model year 1983, version for North America U.S.
3-door coupe body type
RWD (rear-wheel drive), manual 5-speed gearbox
petrol (gasoline) engine with displacement: 5001 cm3 / 305.2 cui, advertised power: 112 kW / 150 hp / 152 PS ( SAE net ), Torque net: 325 Nm / 240 lb-ft
characteristic dimensions: outside length: 4770 mm / 187.8 in, wheelbase: 2565 mm / 101 in
reference weights: shipping weight 1384 kg / 3051 lbs base curb weight: 1425 kg / 3141 lbs
how fast is this car ? top speed: 206 km/h (128 mph) (theoretical);
accelerations: 0- 60 mph 8.8 s; 0- 100 km/h 9.3 s (a-c simulation); 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 16.7 s (a-c simulation)
fuel consumption and mileage: 16/26 mpg (U.S.), 14.7/9 l/100km, 19.2/31.1 mpg (imp.), 6.8/11.1 km/l EPA ratings average estimated by a-c: 15 l/100km / 18.9 mpg (imp.) / 15.7 mpg (U.S.) / 6.7 km/l

[xuimod]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

To the topic.

I cannot fathom why the prices go up on aging vehicles, there is a direct correlation with the MSRP on the FR-S and the sales decline, whether or not it's meaningful is up to you.
In 2012 you could buy a base MT for ~$24,955
In 2013 the price went up to ~$25,255,
No changes to the model just a January 1st 2013 price increase, one that I got stuck with
The 2014 model starts at ~$25,470
The 2015 model starts at ~$25,670

Fuckin' why. Every other product gets cheaper throughout it's production run except cars, it's not like the plant or dock workers have growing pay, Toyota is screwing over their bottom guys like every other corporation allowed to do so.

Strong Yen might have something to do with it. Mid 2011 to Mid 2012 was a strong Yen period (Japanese export relatively expensive). After about mid-October 2012 (which would be about same time 2013 model year started to show up), the Yen started to get weaker and weaker. Moved from about 80 Yen/dollar to about 120 Yen/dollar we see today.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?fr...to=JPY&view=5Y

So if Yen stays weak or gets weaker, we may see a modest price cut, especially if the Twin makes it to a complete refresh. Although I doubt it. My guess is prices won't move if Yen stays over 110 Yen/dollar.

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by xuimod

Strong Yen might have something to do with it. Mid 2011 to Mid 2012 was a strong Yen period (Japanese export relatively expensive). After about mid-October 2012 (which would be about same time 2013 model year started to show up), the Yen started to get weaker and weaker. Moved from about 80 Yen/dollar to about 120 Yen/dollar we see today.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?fr...to=JPY&view=5Y

So if Yen stays weak or gets weaker, we may see a modest price cut, especially if the Twin makes it to a complete refresh. Although I doubt it. My guess is prices won't move if Yen stays over 110 Yen/dollar.

You would think, except Toyota spreads changes in currency valuation across the entire product line. Currency stability was a large part of their decision matrix when considering US production over the objections of JDM employees that resulted in huge domestic protests.

Now, a vast majority of North American sold vehicles are also produced here and immune from currency fluctuations. Good thing even though auto prices in general outpace CPI inflation although that's been manipulated to artificially depress actual CPI and so cut COLA's linked to government programs.

Most of their pricing matrix depends on the competition, desired market penetration, estimated market growth (or shrinkage), materials, labor and time in the planned product cycle. The only exception I recall was the last Supra that had a massive price cut during the final year of importation here when Toyota and others threw in the towel on the segment, but don't think we'll see that with FR-S.

[PhantomX]

Originally Posted by torqdork

Now, a vast majority of North American sold vehicles are also produced here and immune from currency fluctuations.

Just FYI, the FR-S is 100% produced/manufactured in Japan, then shipped to the US.

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Just FYI, the FR-S is 100% produced/manufactured in Japan, then shipped to the US.

Right, along with all other Scions, Prius, 4Runners and Land Cruisers. Yaris is produced in France.

Together, they represent a fraction of total North American sales.

[m.box.design]

Meet John Doe. He had a great girlfriend, but then he let love 'professionals' like Dr.Phil convince him otherwise. He then dumps her for a new 'better' girlfriend, but he still spends everyday pointing out the flaws of his ex-girlfriend.

Looks like John Doe just needs to move on with his life and his new woman.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by SlowButFun

I've never (well, okay, once) experienced the kinds of ad hominem attacks I've been subjected to for stating something about a vehicle - citing articles from level headed reviewers like Karesh & Dykes that support my contentions by the way - on any other forum.

I honestly believe some here, such as Lone Wolf, just can't accept that the Toybaru was over-hyped to the point of inevitably disappointing many, that it's not powerful enough to hang with many cars costing about the same price (or less), and that it doesn't even garner a recommended rating from Consumer Reports due to poor reliability.

I owned an FR-S. I took a bath on it when I traded it I for a vehicle that didn't cost significantly more despite being many levels better in terms of performance, power and even refinement and utility.

The reason I weighed in on why sales of the Twins are tumbling is because it justifies me that Toyota & Subaru won't do the one, easy, inexpensive thing that the Twins ABSOLUTELY SHOUT OUT FOR, and would probably double their sales: Add 40 to 50 horsepower & approximately 40 lbs feet of torque.

The one really bad move was sourcing the boxer motor from Subaru. It's not as if Toyota doesn't have way more technical expertise designing & building engines vs Subaru.

First of all, you compare your Mustang GT to a FRS. New, that Mustang would have been about 32-35k right? I would hope for that price that it is better in terms of power output and refinement. Still, the FRS has better fuel economy, steering feel, handling, and about just as much utility. I also would find it hard to believe that the FRS is less reliable than a 2014 Mustang, but I could be wrong.

You keep complaining about power, yet the 86 was never supposed to be about power. It is about bringing an affordable, lightweight RWD coupe to the market, which Toyota accomplished. It has won plenty of awards around the world praising it's fun to drive nature. If you want a fast car, there are plenty to choose from. If you want a lightweight rwd driver's car, there is not much of a selection, especially for under 50k. It is currently the only car you can buy that is under 3000lbs, rwd, and has the capacity to hold more than 2 passengers.

You act like the car has failed, which it hasn't, even if it ends up being discontinued.

[Ponwh]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

First of all, you compare your Mustang GT to a FRS. New, that Mustang would have been about 32-35k right? I would hope for that price that it is better in terms of power output and refinement. Still, the FRS has better fuel economy, steering feel, handling, and about just as much utility. I also would find it hard to believe that the FRS is less reliable than a 2014 Mustang, but I could be wrong.

You keep complaining about power, yet the 86 was never supposed to be about power. It is about bringing an affordable, lightweight RWD coupe to the market, which Toyota accomplished. It has won plenty of awards around the world praising it's fun to drive nature. If you want a fast car, there are plenty to choose from. If you want a lightweight rwd driver's car, there is not much of a selection, especially for under 50k. It is currently the only car you can buy that is under 3000lbs, rwd, and has the capacity to hold more than 2 passengers.

You act like the car has failed, which it hasn't, even if it ends up being discontinued.

Depends which trim you get. It can even be 25kish out the door. or 50k+

The fuel economy is about the same compared to the eco boost in the mustang.

Frs cannot back seats are 95% worthless. The mustang can still fit people without making the front passenger uncomfortable. Trunk space is also twice as much.

As for reliability. The mustang has been around for 50years. The FRS has been around for 2 going on 3. (or 3 going on 4, samething.)

I feel sorry for your passengers if you got a FRS to carry around people.

Many people will say I am mustang biased. but truly the mustang wipes the FRS off the floor on paper, and the premium trim interior for the mustang (33k) is x100 better than the limited editions for the frs/brz.

Ill still buy a frs.

[Dezoris]

The drop means nothing, I just wished they spent more time having more of a plan for the car than 5 years and just a bunch of body kit and accessory editions.
Since Subaru basically manufactures the entire car, I figured for certain they would have had an STI trim level with forced induction.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by SlowButFun

I've never (well, okay, once) experienced the kinds of ad hominem attacks I've been subjected to for stating something about a vehicle - citing articles from level headed reviewers like Karesh & Dykes that support my contentions by the way - on any other forum.

I honestly believe some here, such as Lone Wolf, just can't accept that the Toybaru was over-hyped to the point of inevitably disappointing many, that it's not powerful enough to hang with many cars costing about the same price (or less), and that it doesn't even garner a recommended rating from Consumer Reports due to poor reliability.

I owned an FR-S. I took a bath on it when I traded it I for a vehicle that didn't cost significantly more despite being many levels better in terms of performance, power and even refinement and utility.

The reason I weighed in on why sales of the Twins are tumbling is because it puzzles me that Toyota & Subaru won't do the one, easy, inexpensive thing that the Twins ABSOLUTELY SHOUT OUT FOR, and would probably double their sales: Add 40 to 50 horsepower & approximately 40 lbs feet of torque.

The one really bad move was sourcing the boxer motor from Subaru. It's not as if Toyota doesn't have way more technical expertise designing & building engines vs Subaru.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Ponwh

Depends which trim you get. It can even be 25kish out the door. or 50k+

The fuel economy is about the same compared to the eco boost in the mustang.

Frs cannot back seats are 95% worthless. The mustang can still fit people without making the front passenger uncomfortable. Trunk space is also twice as much.

As for reliability. The mustang has been around for 50years. The FRS has been around for 2 going on 3. (or 3 going on 4, samething.)

I feel sorry for your passengers if you got a FRS to carry around people.

Many people will say I am mustang biased. but truly the mustang wipes the FRS off the floor on paper, and the premium trim interior for the mustang (33k) is x100 better than the limited editions for the frs/brz.

Ill still buy a frs.

He was talking about his 2014 GT which would have been easily over 30k new. The ecoboost is nice, but add the performance package and you're looking at a 28k car with no other options.

The FRS seats are not roomy, but they get the job done. I don't normally carry +2 passengers, but I like having the option in a pinch. I've owned 2 seater cars before and would never do it again for a DD. If you normally carry more than one passenger the Mustang wouldn't be a great choice either.

The value that comes with the Mustang is undeniable, there is a reason it has lasted for so many decades. It offers a great amount of power for the price, but it is also marketed to the average American, so there is an obvious emphasis on comfort. The FRS on the other hand looks horrible on paper, which is why I think so many people love to argue about the car. Once you get in the car though, you understand what makes it different from a Genesis, Mustang, Challenger, or Camaro. It's the low seating position, the nimble steering, the high redline, and everything else that makes this car so special. It's not perfect, it's not for everyone, and it's not going to win any drag races, but there isn't another car for under 30k new that I would rather own.

The FRS will never sell in numbers like the Mustang or Camaro, no matter what Toyota does to it. Even if they added more power, people would still complain that it's slower than other cars. There are also too many compromises that the average driver wouldn't be willing to make. It's too low, the seats are too tight, the ride is too firm, and there isn't nearly enough sound deadening. This car was made for a certain kind of enthusiast, and because of that a lot of people will never understand why some people love the 86 so much.