2014 86CUP Challenge to NorCal with NCRC

[garfull]

yeah we side tracked for an intermission to the great brake debate.

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

I am confused here, @BRZChix and @garful are both talking about non-86 cars at Laguna. What happened?

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by garfull

yeah we side tracked for an intermission to the great brake debate.

Wait, so were you guys driving non-86s at the last laguna event?

[PMok]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

Wait, so were you guys driving non-86s at the last laguna event?

yeah one of them got a Miata track car and the other now has an S2K. #mustbenice #ballerstatus

Originally Posted by MyRx

Not to throw a wrench in this discussion, but we need to go commercial. Therefore, 101% complete, all generation 1, working robots, 1985 - 1987 pieces except the re-manufactured box. Even the foam, inserts, and instructions are OE. Took me about on/off a year to piece together.

awesome! I once had the cement truck that forms the leg... but that was all I had. Hard to explain to parents that I needed to buy more of them to make a bigger robot...

I am starting to wonder if the great brake debate is better served moving into a separate topic over in the motorsports area... although of course we in NorCal are well known for our offtopic digressions. But please let's keep it civil and not resort to calling people names directly or indirectly... I mean we're seriously arguing about brake pads, really???

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by PMok

yeah one of them got a Miata track car and the other now has an S2K. #mustbenice #ballerstatus



awesome! I once had the cement truck that forms the leg... but that was all I had. Hard to explain to parents that I needed to buy more of them to make a bigger robot...

I am starting to wonder if the great brake debate is better served moving into a separate topic over in the motorsports area... although of course we in NorCal are well known for our offtopic digressions. But please let's keep it civil and not resort to calling people names directly or indirectly... I mean we're seriously arguing about brake pads, really???

So does that mean they don't have their 86s any more or did they decide to avoid my issue of too modified for track and get dedicated track cars?

[PMok]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

So does that mean they don't have their 86s any more or did they decide to avoid my issue of too modified for track and get dedicated track cars?

I'll let them explain their reasons, but to my knowledge they both still own 86s.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by PMok

I'll let them explain their reasons, but to my knowledge they both still own 86s.

Well, in any event I'll be saddened if we loose two of the common 86 track rats. We need more 86s at the track events!

[garfull]

still have the 86, but like csgmike said, the miata is far cheaper to get seat time. i may not be getting the fast lap times but im having just as much fun.

what's great about this community is regardless of what car you own, this community is always open arms to enthusiasts.

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

So does that mean they don't have their 86s any more or did they decide to avoid my issue of too modified for track and get dedicated track cars?

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by garfull

still have the 86, but like csgmike said, the miata is far cheaper to get seat time. i may not be getting the fast lap times but im having just as much fun.

what's great about this community is regardless of what car you own, this community is always open arms to enthusiasts.

So is it purely a track car? If it is then you should think about racing...

I have to admit that if I hadn't depreciated/modified my BRZ so much I might just get a spec Miata. As it is I'm looking at making my BRZ into a pure race car and eating the rest of the depreciation.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

So is it purely a track car? If it is then you should think about racing...

I have to admit that if I hadn't depreciated/modified my BRZ so much I might just get a spec Miata. As it is I'm looking at making my BRZ into a pure race car and eating the rest of the depreciation.

Get more seat time. Skills carry over to different platforms, especially when you're coming from the RWD world. I'm just an odd ball that happened to carry my driving intuition over from a Camry and a city bus. I would know what failed brakes do because I've lost braking capabilities carrying 88 passengers going downhill.

[AyJay]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Agree that you made a claim but cannot back it up with any quantified OR qualified evidence?

You're no better than the vendors here that hawk product with nothing but claims.

I cannot or will not? We'll go on and on with the same anecdotal evidence and frankly I'm not interested. I don't find interacting with you enjoyable and your willingness to smugly blah, blah, blah people to death on forums is well chronicled.

I apologize to everyone my part in this bullsh!t.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Get more seat time. Skills carry over to different platforms, especially when you're coming from the RWD world. I'm just an odd ball that happened to carry my driving intuition over from a Camry and a city bus. I would know what failed brakes do because I've lost braking capabilities carrying 88 passengers going downhill.

What I mean is I would get a spec Miata to save money, I did something like 40 days on track last year JUST with my BRZ. As you know, the details add up alot on the BRZ compared to a Miata. I didn't fully understand just how much of a difference there was in running costs until getting into Lemons with a team that runs a Miata. So many of the consumables are so much cheaper!

That said though, the BRZ is more fun to drive...

And about brake failures, it sounds like yours is much better, but I've had two fun ones.
Second day I ever did at Laguna Seca with the 2013 Civic Si I had before my BRZ I found out what brake fade is really about when I almost went straight off at turn 2 (it ended up being ok but it taught me alot about brake fade).
The second time I lost most of my brakes was when I lost the front brakes on my car due to a bleed screw coming loose (turns out finger tight varies alot depending upon the length of the wrench).

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

I have some disk paint but I haven't used it for a while. Frankly it was hard to get a good read on it without the specialized tool (forgot the name) to get the exact color.

Brake fluid still seemed to be aging normally though it is RT700 that I had flushed pretty recently.

Yeah, running square pads. That the rears were lasting so long is why I bought two more boxes instead of trying a new compound; I figured I would use up these rears before trying something new.

Side note. The RT700 in my personal car was over 1.5 years old with some spirited use. Brake pedal feel diminished from 100% to about 95%. Color was nicely steeped afternoon tea. Pedal performance remained confident until I flushed it out and ran fresh lines (previous lines were 6 years old and cracking already).

My recommendation has always been to flush at least once per year, however, the fluid is pretty solid throughout the year. I've heard some people "boiling" the RT700 recently, but I'm finding out that they are engaging ABS from initial braking point to release. Their brake pads are completely toasted on street tires and they are utilizing pad compounds that have very little modulation range for street tires. Works a little better on slicks though. In other words, anything can fail if you put sufficient effort to it.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

What I mean is I would get a spec Miata to save money, I did something like 40 days on track last year JUST with my BRZ. As you know, the details add up alot on the BRZ compared to a Miata. I didn't fully understand just how much of a difference there was in running costs until getting into Lemons with a team that runs a Miata. So many of the consumables are so much cheaper!

That said though, the BRZ is more fun to drive...

And about brake failures, it sounds like yours is much better, but I've had two fun ones.
Second day I ever did at Laguna Seca with the 2013 Civic Si I had before my BRZ I found out what brake fade is really about when I almost went straight off at turn 2 (it ended up being ok but it taught me alot about brake fade).
The second time I lost most of my brakes was when I lost the front brakes on my car due to a bleed screw coming loose (turns out finger tight varies alot depending upon the length of the wrench).

Being a front runner in Spec Miata isn't cheap though. A family friend has been doing Spec Miata for almost 2 decades now. His yearly budget is quite high and he's consistently a front runner every year (he is the defending champion right now).

Loosely speaking, a 15k Spec Miata will get you running, a 25k Spec Miata will put you middle pack, and 40-45k Spec Miata will put you in the top 5. Again loosely, because driver skill is very important as well.

I tested out some Dixcel brake pads 3 years ago due to their very boastful claim of being the best brake pads on the market. Needless to say I faded the pads going down to turn 2 at MRLS essentially every lap. I spent quite a bit of effort to cut down speed in various ways, and overall, it was quite a disastrous event. I burned through about half the pad in 3 sessions and could never quite figure out how to drive on those pads properly. I spent about $700 on the pad set for the sake of science! Before that I had played with various compound setups from Project Mu, Carbotech, Cobalt, Hawk, Ferodo, and Raybestos.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Side note. The RT700 in my personal car was over 1.5 years old with some spirited use. Brake pedal feel diminished from 100% to about 95%. Color was nicely steeped afternoon tea. Pedal performance remained confident until I flushed it out and ran fresh lines (previous lines were 6 years old and cracking already).

My recommendation has always been to flush at least once per year, however, the fluid is pretty solid throughout the year. I've heard some people "boiling" the RT700 recently, but I'm finding out that they are engaging ABS from initial braking point to release. Their brake pads are completely toasted on street tires and they are utilizing pad compounds that have very little modulation range for street tires. Works a little better on slicks though. In other words, anything can fail if you put sufficient effort to it.

yeah, I was basically trying to say that even if I was hitting damn hot temps that I neither have seen nor would I expect to have seen much change in that fluid.

Even after alot of time on track the RT700 holds up really well in my car; much much better than the RBF I was using before it. After a bunch of track days (I think it must have been around 10, maybe 12, not really sure) I noticed that it wasn't feeling quite a firm/precise with the pedal pressure compared to new fluid so I flushed the fluid from the caliper and it was kind of golden colored in the caliper.

The only cases I've heard of people having issues with RT700 was on heavy, high horse power cars and that wasn't boiling, more of a rapid degradation.