I got sick from reading this discussion about the Twins

[campy]

I like to think of the FRS/BRZ as an "a la carte" car. You buy the car, then you can choose to spend your money on power, suspension, cosmetics, or whatever you like.

I get the impression that's how Toyota and Scion look at it too, considering Scion now hosts the Tuner Challenges, and Toyota originally shipped 86's to tuning houses in Japan back before the car officially launched. This car has absolutely crazy amounts of aftermarket support, and a big reason is because the manufacturer encouraged it.

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They bump it up to250 hp there will be just as many people saying it should be 275 minimum, bump it up to 275 then it should be 300 and so on and so on!
Then as soon as it hits max HP the same people will say it is too heavy, doesn't handle right, looks horrid, and so on and so on.
Many , many of these people will never even drive one! Even on here some of the most vocal "not enough power" rants start with "well I just took one on a 5 minute test drive and let me tell you...)

I agree with all of this.

People forget to realize if the twins came with a turbo the sticker price would be very different on these cars. Our cars are fine the way they were built. If you want Neanderthal straight line horsepower where all you need to do is step on the gas pedal, the twins probably aren't the right car for you anyway.

[ZionsWrath]

The car is down on power but that kind of makes it fun on track. People coming over to see your car because they want to know how you were able to catch up to them.

My last track day I could barely out pace a hyundai accent on the straight until he hit 5th gear, rofl

But that is also nice I never have to lift when giving point bys

[DarkSunrise]

I think the torque/hp is fine for what it is (slow car that's fun to drive fast), but the car needs an engine that encourages being wound out. And by that I mean:

- no torque dip from 3200-4500 RPM, which kills the fun just as you start to get on it
- better engine note, not the stock blender noise

A UEL header + exhaust addresses those two issues, and really rewards keeping the revs up.

This is one of the few cars I've had where I felt it needed exhaust mods.

[Levi]

To answer to the OP, there are many people with which there is no point in discussing. Their brain just doesn't function well, they cannot reason in an intelligent manner. On the internet you'll find even more of such people. The opinion of an ignorant person is worthless. No need to care about it.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

Toyota and subaru got lazy on the engine, period.

No, they designed the car to meet a certain price-point. It's really not that hard to understand.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Finally...a person who MUST have the answer to my question. DohcTor...can you tell me exactly what automotive function this car is unable to perform due to a "Lack of power"? I am dying to hear the answer.

Once again...the silence is deafening.

[Quentin]

Even if Toyota offered a turbo, I wouldn't buy it. 10% more money for a car that doesn't add too much more in the real world. OMG, it might be .8sec quicker to 60!


Sent from Tandy 400

[gt8613]

Lightweight, usable power on streets, drifts ao easily, too much road feel, handles like a dream, looks great, great mpg...... Yea... That is a description of a piece of shit car.... Ya right!

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Quentin

Even if Toyota offered a turbo, I wouldn't buy it. 10% more money for a car that doesn't add too much more in the real world. OMG, it might be .8sec quicker to 60!


Sent from Tandy 400

Have you actually ever driven a turbo car? It would make a huge difference. They most likely would use stronger engine internals, and due to coming as a turbo car from the factory would be much cheaper to get more power out of.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Have you actually ever driven a turbo car? It would make a huge difference. They most likely would use stronger engine internals, and due to coming as a turbo car from the factory would be much cheaper to get more power out of.

Plenty of WRXs, STIs, OBXTs, GTIs, LGTs, etc. You missed my point. On the street, the performance increase is marginal because I still have to watch out for Johnny Lawman. I've driven cars that have some real balls (V10 M5, IS-F, 20 minutes on track in a 991 911 S). They were so quickly in the reckless zone due to the power that I was just expecting to get pulled over all the time - except for the 911 on the track, of course. Yea, they were fun, but it was really limited in where you could actually open them up. I'm already walking that line to where I probably look like an asshole when I'm having fun in my FR-S. If I start getting out to the track and get really into it, I could see doing an SC down the road, but I don't see the justification right now for my needs.

Edit: cost is the other factor. This was an unnecessary, toy purchase for me. For a toy car that I can only use part of the time -- when it is my wife and me or my daughter and me when the weather is decent, it starts becoming harder to justify if the cost goes up.... especially when an AWD WRX that comfortably seats 4 is available for the same (or maybe less) money.

Sent from Tandy 400

[DohcTor]

As expected, I check back in to find that I have rustled some jimmies, and I find a slur of excuses waiting in nearly every post. As expected. Those who i have offended the most have even bothered to make counter questions, hoping that I will enter into their little argument

Meh.... I have already stated that I tire of the excuses. They got lazy with this engine. Honda did it 15 years ago and did an amazing job, every enthusiast that doesn't own an 86 will agree that the s2000 is superior in every way. Now, those who currently own the 86 will of course say differently... The mind needs to reinforce its purchase.

I love my 86 but I can tell its cheaply made and was rushed. This engine is weak and underpowered. It will not last as long as many other japanese engines.

Eagerly awaiting hondas long rumored s2000 replacement while I mod this car. I'm afraid to say that a car is only as good as its engine, and no one beats honda when it comes to engines.

[Quentin]

The S2000 was a $36k car in 2009. It should have a better engine.

I drove an AP2 prior to getting my FR-S. Only 2 seats and the convertible top were a no-go.

Sent from Tandy 400

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

As expected, I check back in to find that I have rustled some jimmies, and I find a slur of excuses waiting in nearly every post. As expected. Those who i have offended the most have even bothered to make counter questions, hoping that I will enter into their little argument

Meh.... I have already stated that I tire of the excuses. They got lazy with this engine. Honda did it 15 years ago and did an amazing job, every enthusiast that doesn't own an 86 will agree that the s2000 is superior in every way. Now, those who currently own the 86 will of course say differently... The mind needs to reinforce its purchase.

I love my 86 but I can tell its cheaply made and was rushed. This engine is weak and underpowered. It will not last as long as many other japanese engines.

Eagerly awaiting hondas long rumored s2000 replacement while I mod this car. I'm afraid to say that a car is only as good as its engine, and no one beats honda when it comes to engines.

Still waiting for an answer to my question. I am going to guess you don't have an answer.

As to the durability thing...only time will tell, but it does not inspire confidence. I need it to last 10 years.