suspension advice

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Vash

I have RCE yellows, sways, and Bilstein B8s and I love the ride and handling for a daily driver.

You have the RCE sways? Do you do any atuox or canyon driving? Im curious as that is what Im looking at (with Konis instead of B8s) and am a little worried that the sways are too large even though im on softer springs. But i guess they sways deal more with balance and if both are big its alright? Plus they are adjustable.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

We have not tested them ourselves but from the documentation we've seen we believe they have similar valving. I do believe the B8 has a shorter internal bumpstop up front.

We have customers on both B6 and B8 and RCE Yellows and the results are very good.

- Andy

Sounds like w/ a mild ~1" drop, there's not much reason to go w/ the B8 over B6-- good to know and can save some $

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by finch1750

You have the RCE sways? Do you do any atuox or canyon driving? Im curious as that is what Im looking at (with Konis instead of B8s) and am a little worried that the sways are too large even though im on softer springs. But i guess they sways deal more with balance and if both are big its alright? Plus they are adjustable.

From what I've read, swaybar size depends greatly on where you are driving, mostly due to how level the road is. If the track is very level (read autocross) you can get away with a heavier bar because you are only concerned with keeping the car flat in the corners and don't have to worry about keeping tire contact when the road drops out from under your wheel.
Too heavy bars become a problem when the road is not flat, because they can literally prevent a wheel from dropping fast enough to keep in contact with a changing road surface, causing the car to effectively be on three wheels at very inopportune moments. A flat track can handle a stiff suspension, but canyon carving and most road tracks require a "supple" suspension that can follow changes in the road.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

From what I've read, swaybar size depends greatly on where you are driving, mostly due to how level the road is. If the track is very level (read autocross) you can get away with a heavier bar because you are only concerned with keeping the car flat in the corners and don't have to worry about keeping tire contact when the road drops out from under your wheel..

slightly incorrect interpretation


level means lack of elevation changes


but do not confuse this with smoothness


as an autocross course could be a dirty mess with plenty of bumps, and cars with too stiff suspensions/swaybars suffer greatly in those conditions

[NoobTron]

Well, what's done is done. For better or worse, I have a set of B6s and RCE Yellows on the way. Thanks all for your input. If things go my way I will have these on by the weekend and with better than average luck will also run my first autocross on the 9th.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

slightly incorrect interpretation


level means lack of elevation changes


but do not confuse this with smoothness


as an autocross course could be a dirty mess with plenty of bumps, and cars with too stiff suspensions/swaybars suffer greatly in those conditions

Shows how little I know about autocross. I always assumed they were pretty smooth tracks.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

...my jack already barely clears the stock height.

Would this AC Hydraulics unit possibly work better with a dropped car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...ACHyd1_pg1.htm?

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

Shows how little I know about autocross. I always assumed they were pretty smooth tracks.

well I'd not call them tracks


they are generally parking lots and sometimes little airport strips that service small towns.


every so often you'll have a group fish out a nice location with fresh or well maintained pavement, but this is an exception rather than the norm

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

What is your goal lowering? I would love for a nicer look by lowering but my jack already barely clears the stock height.

This jack from Harbor Freight will clear RCE yellows. I know because I have this jack and I used it to install my RCE Yellows. You have to be careful though; there are two nearly identical jacks. One is 34.5" long and one is 39.5" long. Get the longer one.

[NoobTron]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

This jack from Harbor Freight will clear RCE yellows. I know because I have this jack and I used it to install my RCE Yellows. You have to be careful though; there are two nearly identical jacks. One is 34.5" long and one is 39.5" long. Get the longer one.

You also have to be careful because your buying a jack from Harbor Freight. J/k (sort of).

E-

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by NoobTron

So I don’t yet have the driving vocabulary to precisely describe what I “think” I am experiencing, but this is my best shot. Daily driving around town, even a bit spirited, no problems. When I really push the car I get this sensation that the body and suspension are somewhat disconnected. I also have the impression that I can feel the weight of the car shift a bit too dramatically before I feel the springs go to work. I am looking for something to “tighten” all of that up without breaking my back or smashing the little Noobtron’s eggs coming home from the grocery store. I also have smallish ambitions of doing some autocross in the not so distant future, in a land not so far away.

I know you already bought the suspension, but here's what I think you need to do:

You need to spend more seat time at the limits of a stock car. Not just this car, but different cars, FWD, RWD, AWD, sedan, SUV, etc.

This "disconnect" you feel is just body roll, but it is there for a reason. Once you remove the roll, you will get into more of an immediate over/understeer situation, and (if not set up right) snap oversteer which is infinitely worse than what you feel now.

If you are of the "set it and forget it" variety, it would be best to start somewhere less dramatic. If I were you, I'd try to experience a car with upgraded sway bars to reduce this weight transfer problem. Sway bars + a good set of tires will often do the same thing lowering springs would accomplish, without compromising on the ride height.

FMMV.

-alex

[Vash]

Originally Posted by finch1750

You have the RCE sways? Do you do any atuox or canyon driving? Im curious as that is what Im looking at (with Konis instead of B8s) and am a little worried that the sways are too large even though im on softer springs. But i guess they sways deal more with balance and if both are big its alright? Plus they are adjustable.

Yes, I have the RCE sway bars and they are adjustable. I've been to auto-x a couple times with this setup and I had no issues with it. The alignment makes a big difference too.

[NoobTron]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I know you already bought the suspension, but here's what I think you need to do:

You need to spend more seat time at the limits of a stock car. Not just this car, but different cars, FWD, RWD, AWD, sedan, SUV, etc.

This "disconnect" you feel is just body roll, but it is there for a reason. Once you remove the roll, you will get into more of an immediate over/understeer situation, and (if not set up right) snap oversteer which is infinitely worse than what you feel now.

If you are of the "set it and forget it" variety, it would be best to start somewhere less dramatic. If I were you, I'd try to experience a car with upgraded sway bars to reduce this weight transfer problem. Sway bars + a good set of tires will often do the same thing lowering springs would accomplish, without compromising on the ride height.

FMMV.

-alex

Your points are not without merit, and I thank you for it. You are correct. With driving, like any other hobby I have had along the way, skill beats hardware - just about every time. I totally get that. I have spent as much time and money as I could manage on track time this year - mostly other factory cars, in particular the M cars at the BMW performance center, a session in an Ariel Atom (which does not suck), and one day on the track with my car.

I am very new to sports cars(pickup truck for the last 16yrs) and "driving" and while I can easily feel the difference between an M3 and FRS I don't yet know how to translate the differences well. It also seems a bit unfair to compare the two.

I also put a set of Eagle F1 tires (17x8) on RFP1s on the car within maybe two weeks on buying the the car last January, so that is all I know in regards to driving my FRS. I don't know if those are any good or not, seems like they do a pretty decent job.

I don't have any founded reason to believe that it's nothing more than body roll, but there is a shift of some sorts, that happens mostly in the rear. I "feel" like the body rolls, then the shift down or out, then thing springs get busy. I also don't believe that it is loss of traction. I may be way off on that, but that is sensation that the butt-o-meter is reporting.

[NoobTron]

Oh, hot damn....me likes.

It is my understanding that I should wait a week or so and go back for an alignment. The tragedy of my situation is I am now on the road for a week, for work - 86 at home.

Will a week of the car just sitting be enough for the springs to "settle?"

Thanks..


E-