quick questions about this car in snow

[bluesman]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

WOOOHOOO a 3 month vacation for me then!!!!!!!
So you are saying I would be screwed after this:

Just move the car a few feet to the right, brush it off, and you're on the road again.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bluesman

Just move the car a few feet to the right, brush it off, and you're on the road again.

That was day one of three days of the same! Put more miles on the snow blower then the car that week.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

WOOOHOOO a 3 month vacation for me then!!!!!!!
So you are saying I would be screwed after this:

Lol.. I think so.. Here in the SE where it's snows once every few years.. Even if you manage to get out on the road.. Somebody in an SUV will take you out while their talking on the phone..

[D88]

I bought my car in December last year so I had to learn its behaviour on snowy, icy roads. I left the dealership on winter tires and never had a problem. RWD cars have their nuances and you must adjust your driving to accommodate your wheels pushing from the rear rather than pulling from the front but once you understand how that changes the vehicle's handling, it becomes just as predictable and second nature to drive as anything. The only downside, if there is one, is ground clearance but you're going to have that problem in anything that isn't a truck or SUV.

[Tcoat]

Us "old" guys should all remember when 99.9% of the cars on the road were ALL RWD (unless of course you had a Toranado). We all managed to drive just fine and obviously lived through it as we are here to talk about it.
If I could manage my 70 Coronet R/T with it's 500+ horse engine (that probably was close to the weight of an FRS all on it's own), positrac diff, 14 inch raised rear end and massive (bald) rear tires through several Canadian winters then the FRS should be a piece of cake!

[bluesman]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

Our clearance isn't that different in stock trim compared to any of the smaller BMW coupes and those are driven all over Europe and the US in RWD configuration in the winter. Yes they are a couple hundred pounds heaver, but I can't imagine that's the only factor that makes them dive-able in the snow.

Those coupes have winter tires or crazy drivers (or, not infrequently, both). Snow tires are much more widely used in Europe than they are here, and the laws in most European countries mandate minimum tread depths greater than those for legal use of summer tires (generally 4 mm, or ~6/32"). Some countries (e.g. Croatia, Estonia, Hungary, Lapland) require that you have chains in the car in winter and put them on in response to official weather-related mandates. But most Europeans who drive in winter conditions use snows.

Many (most?) RWD Bimmers are horrible in slippery conditions on summer or "all season" tires (also called "no-season" tires) and spend their winter vacations on proper snow shoes. I've owned and driven a 2002 Tii and a Z3 coupe, and without snows they were virtual sculpture on a slippery road. But snows on most RWD cars make a huge difference. Car & Driver did an interesting test back in '99, finding that "...[w]inter tires boosted the rwd Benz's acceleration times more than they did the fwd Audi's..." They also offer more ammo in the weight-is-good / weight-is-bad debate, to wit: "the weight of a 4wd system simply adds to the momentum that has to be stopped. When it comes time to brake or change direction on low-traction surfaces, the extra mass of the driveline becomes more of a detriment".

Originally Posted by Superhatch

That extra 250 lbs isn't over the rear wheels anyway...Get a 205/50/17 full snow tire, throw 50lbs of sand in the trunk (if you're really worried) and away you go.

True - away you go....but stopping is both harder and more dangerous. If that bag o' sand is placed well behind the rear axle, the floor pan acts as a lever to shift the weight bias rearward by far more than 50 lbs. This lightens steering, reduces front grip, and increases off-throttle oversteer - so it can lead to a snap spin when backing off the throttle in a slippery turn or when even a little sideways. A bag of sand is most useful to spread on ice for traction, if you get stuck - and you want to carry it as far forward in the trunk as you can to minimize the downside.

Sadly, we can't have the cake and eat it too.

[bluesman]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Us "old" guys should all remember when 99.9% of the cars on the road were ALL RWD (unless of course you had a Toranado). We all managed to drive just fine and obviously lived through it as we are here to talk about it.

True dat! But I, for one, am more than merely grateful that I never have to drive an Impala sedan on bias-plies through a snow storm again. I got my license in the fall of '63, my father's V8-powered pride and joy was a few months old, and I was fearless until I found myself using the rear view mirrors to see where I was going........

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bluesman

True dat! But I, for one, am more than merely grateful that I never have to drive an Impala sedan on bias-plies through a snow storm again. I got my license in the fall of '63, my father's V8-powered pride and joy was a few months old, and I was fearless until I found myself using the rear view mirrors to see where I was going........

OH GOD I FORGOT ABOUT BIAS! All the 5 inch wide, rock hard, air leaking, whitewalled horror of them!!!
First car was a 10 year old $500 '64 Impala SS convert. so I know EXACTLY how you feel!

[SkevoX]

This will be my first winter in the frs parking my evo because it hasn't seen a winter yet. Picked up a set of studded winters so should be good to go as far as rust your in Toronto it's going to happen the salt out east is crazy Your just going to have a bad time with that lol

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Freeze2196

Don't do what I did and chance it on a performance summer tires....

This is the outcome!

Luckily I did no damage the packed snow on the side of the road cushioned the impact.

The real WTF?! moment is when that happens on a FWD car accelerating in a straight line.

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by bluesman

Many (most?) RWD Bimmers are horrible in slippery conditions on summer or "all season" tires (also called "no-season" tires) and spend their winter vacations on proper snow shoes.

It's hilarious in the UK because most people drive around on summer tyres all year, even in snow etc. I've always bought good quality winter tyres, though biased for clear road grip rather than snow. Even compromised on snow the amount of times it's been my 'crap on snow' BMW which has been pulling 'good on snow' FWD or 'excellent on snow' AWD cars out of fields & ditches is stupid.

It's ALL about the tyres. My manufacture of choice in Nokian, they're cheaper than the premium brands but typically their tyres are the best performing tyres.

[projekkt]

I once went to a dealer to get a quote for winter tires and the person stared at me like I'm crazy. Why the hell do you need that she said...

[stonenewt]

Buying tyres? I start here (obviously only useful for people in the UK )

[bluesman]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

It's ALL about the tyres. My manufacture of choice in Nokian, they're cheaper than the premium brands but typically their tyres are the best performing tyres.

+1! Good winter tires (like good rain tires on a race car) make such a difference that you can't imagine ever having done without them.

I loved my Hakkepelitas as much as or more than any other snow tire I've ever used. The only tire that may be better (if you can find them) is the Green Diamond. They're said to be the best winter tires ever - but the company's been a little strange and there are some web posts from people who ordered but never got them.

As I recall, Green Diamonds were originally made in Sweden and only for big long-haul trucks, but they promised sizes for passenger cars for years and gradually came out with some. I tried to buy them a few times but the website always said that the sizes I needed were either back-ordered or not yet available.