Please help! shifting for 2015 frs

[radroach]

Originally Posted by paulca

Completely unnecessary today as the syncro's will do a far better job. You just have to give them a little time and not get impatient and force them.

Double clutching into 1st works very well on this car if you need to do so during AutoX racing. I'd rather that then force my 1st gear syncros to potentially blow up shifting into it at 15 mph.

[radroach]

Originally Posted by paulca

If you try driving along at 30mph, put the clutch down and hold the shifter lightly against 1st and listen, you will hear and asscending whine as the gearbox spins up to effectively 7k rpm. It's a pretty cool sound, but I wouldn't recommend doing it all that often. Though if your brakes ever fail on you, you can always use 1st gear and the clutch for brakes.

WTF are you doing?? That doesn't seem like the proper way at all to use a gearbox.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by radroach

WTF are you doing?? That doesn't seem like the proper way at all to use a gearbox.

No it's not, but it doesn't stop you experimenting once in a while. It's not really any harder on the gear box that shifting from 2nd to 6th at high rev. Any large rev change of the shafts requires hard work by the syncros, but that's the job they are designed for.

[DeadStar7]

I'm not reading all the comments, but I'm sure other people have said the same thing: Don't shift into 1st until you are at a stop, or just before you come to a stop. If you shift into 1st just before you are completely stopped, it should slip in easily. I've been driving manual transmission cars for 16 years, and they have all been similar in that they don't like to be put into 1st gear while moving. Same thing with reverse. Make sure you are at a dead stop before shifting into reverse. If you are rolling at all, regardless of direction, you can expect to get a bit of a grind.

Good luck. Keep practicing!

[Sideways&Smiling]

1st rule of Shift Club: Never force gear selection. If it doesn't want to go into gear, there's a reason for it. You forcing it is likely going to result in you having a broken transmission and a very bad day.

2nd rule of Shift Club: Don't talk about Shift Club.

[aznatama]

Originally Posted by paulca

That's what synchros are for. Rev matching with the engine does nothing as the clutch is down the engine is not even connected to the gearbox. You rev match simply to prevent a lurch on a down change that might destabilise the car. So only really necessary when at the very limit.

You can rev-match at any speed for smooth downshifting. I heel-toe everywhere when I'm not lazy and just popping it into neutral. Most my passengers don't even realize I'm driving manual at first.

Originally Posted by paulca

Double de-clutching... would take him a lot longer than just waiting on the syncro.

I can double-clutch a near perfect smooth downshift without even feathering the clutch upon let out. In NO WAY WHATSOEVER is this slower than merely waiting for the synchros. Synchros bridge small speed gaps, not large ones, and are thus much better for upshifting (not having to wait for rev to drop), and not as well for downshifting. Double-clutch downshifting forces the engine side of the gears to speed up to match (or nearly match) the faster spinning lower gears as opposed to waiting for the faster spinning lower gears to slow down (via braking) to match the slower spinning engine-side gears.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by aznatama

I can double-clutch a near perfect smooth downshift without even feathering the clutch upon let out. In NO WAY WHATSOEVER is this slower than merely waiting for the synchros. Synchros bridge small speed gaps, not large ones, and are thus much better for upshifting (not having to wait for rev to drop), and not as well for downshifting. Double-clutch downshifting forces the engine side of the gears to speed up to match (or nearly match) the faster spinning lower gears as opposed to waiting for the faster spinning lower gears to slow down (via braking) to match the slower spinning engine-side gears.

I have always wondered what happens during a double clutch, so lets work through it.

Lets say you are at 3000 RPM in 4th to downshift to 3rd you:
A- Depress the clutch: this decouples the engine from the trans
move gear from 4th to neutral: slider ring decoupled final drive from input shaft.
The input shaft is now spinning down under friction (was just at 3000 RPM input).
B- While shifting out of gear you started to bring the engine revs UP in anticipation of the shift.
C- You release the clutch: this recouples the engine to the trans input shaft so you are bringing the shaft up to whatever speed the engine is at
you continue to raise the engine (and input shaft up in RPM) while in neutral.
D- Now you depress the clutch again decoupling the engine & input shaft.
E- Now you move the slider into 3rd gear where the synchros guarantee input shaft at ~4000 RPM before engagement.
F- Now you release the clutch and are in 3rd at 4000 RPM


I just have a hard time believing, that a human can negotiate all of the above in the split second that I can perform a "regular" downshift.
In fact I think I can demonstrate a downshift with no clutch about the same speed as a double clutch.

I have a theory that people who are really in tune with their car do not even disengage the clutch all the way during every shift, but dont even realize it until the rare time where you grind and wonder "what was up with that...."

I get the theory behind the double clutch, but I guess I'll have to try it some before I believe it.

[aznatama]

Double clutch downshifting is easier to do smoother than heel-toe rev-match "regular" downshifting, but it does take slightly longer since there's two depressions of the clutch instead of just one. However, in heel-toe downshifting, you hold the clutch in for a split second, whereas in double clutching, you barely need to wait at all while the clutch is out in neutral before depressing clutch again (assuming stock clutch travel and no clutch stop).

That being said, "regular" heel-toe downshifts require you to be much more in tune with your car to do properly, whereas double-clutch you can smoothly downshift in *almost* any car. It's really fun to see people's reactions when I drive their car in regards to "WTF? how did you downshift so smoothly?" LOL

With practice, it's pretty easy. Don't think of it as steps, but all one smooth coordinated motion. Just like how you don't go *step clutch* *shift to N* *blip throttle* *shift to next lower gear* *release clutch*.

Eventually, I'll get a GoPro and try to record all this...

[paulca]

I think it's a matter of "Hey look mom, I'm cool."

If I put really good ear protection on you so you couldn't hear the engine, I bet I could convince you we were driving an auto without either heel/toe or DD shifts, well at least you wouldn't be able to tell when we changed gear. I'd even go as far as saying I could probably get up through the box 1st to 6th via every gear and back down again without you noticing a gear change and in under 10 seconds.

Not saying that's always the case, sometimes I'm too lazy to be smooth.

To you US guys a manual is a special thing, so you go on the interweb and you research and research and come back with all these fancy and all but superfluous techniques so you can brag about them to your mates and say you "can drive stick the hard way". Over here people will just look at you and say, "You can drive a car? So what, my 16 yo. daughter can drive a car!" and if you say, "But I can double de-clutch!", they will say, "Do what?", you explain, they will say, "Why on earth would you do that?"

[eddieflyinv]

not even going to read half of these saying HOW to shift into first properly, you just shouldnt do it, when i learned to drive standard there were 2 rules

Rule #1 NEVER shift into first while in motion... not exactly never, but 99% of the time if youre in motion over 10km/h [6mph] id say you are fine to stay in 2nd,
"never go back into first unless you're at a crawl that 2nd gear would stall"

Rule #2 If it sounds bad, or if it feels bad, then it was bad, so dont do it again

rule number 2 is the easiest to get, if properly operated you should never hear any grinding from your transmission, if what youre doing is making it grind, do it differently,

annnnd side note.. 20mph is an outrageous speed to shift back into first, IMO, i suggest just downshifting till you get down to second gear, depress clutch and if you come to a complete stop sure go for 1st, if youre rolling at like 2-5 mph, sure EASE it into 1st, minimal to no damage done, it will go in, but dont try smashing it in there,
if youre going any faster than that, dont try to fight the transmissions lock out, just go really gentle on the clutch and throttle in 2nd and continue on your way

[eddieflyinv]

Originally Posted by paulca

If you try driving along at 30mph, put the clutch down and hold the shifter lightly against 1st and listen, you will hear and asscending whine as the gearbox spins up to effectively 7k rpm. It's a pretty cool sound, but I wouldn't recommend doing it all that often. Though if your brakes ever fail on you, you can always use 1st gear and the clutch for brakes.

OP - never do that, thats retarded

[stugray]

Originally Posted by paulca

To you US guys a manual is a special thing, so you go on the interweb and you research and research and come back with all these fancy and all but superfluous techniques so you can brag about them to your mates and say you "can drive stick the hard way".

Or maybe for SOME of us US guys, we have 30 years experience driving a stick including the #1 worst shifting car in history: The Porsche 914 ( I have owned 3 of them). And still have no idea why one would need to double clutch a modern trans.
I even tried it this morning, and all I can say is "waste of effort". My shifts are smooth enough without complicating matters.

[aznatama]

You don't NEED to double clutch. It's just a way of getting a smooth downshift in a car you're not familiar with, or when you want to be lazy.

If you're familiar enough with your car, and paying attention, no need. If you have to drive a friend's mt car that you're unfamiliar with for a date, dbl clutch. It's all situational.

[Necric]

The car pretty much will not let you go into 1st unless you're like under 7 Mph. Never force it, just switch to neutral and coast to a stop.