FRS lack of horsepower

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

You watch, everyone will be building performance cars with less power, less weight and good handling pretty soon.

No they won't. Or, at least, I will believe it when I see it.

-Every new government regulation adds weight
-People love owning (and bragging) about their high HP cars. Even if they never use 70% of it and do not really need it.
-performance cars are relatively low volume and low profit cars. The real money is in SUVs, trucks and family sedans.
-When the masses do get a lightweight performance car then they complain about lack of features, rattles, road noise and lack of power. Eliminating any or all of these things adds weight.

In the early 2000s 2200lbs was a light weight performance car. Now 2750lbs is a lightweight performance car. The trend will continue.

Unless.....gas crisis.......

I really hope I am proved wrong. Come on Mazda!

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

You're kidding aren't you? Did you actually drive one of those awful 60's and 70's British sportscars? Even an 80's Alfa Romeo 2.5 litre V6 was way slower than this car. It's ahead of its time in that it takes us back to the thrills of low powered motoring but with modern updated comfort, reliability and performance. You watch, everyone will be building performance cars with less power, less weight and good handling pretty soon.

Ahead? A Lotus is ahead. Sigh. I said nothing about the machinery, I was talking about the goals of the guys who designed the FR-S/BRZ. The FR-S has the same spirit as those early cars, no shit the hardware is different. Can't help you, sorry.

[tahdizzle]

If Energizer made car batteries, a ESC could keep on going and going and going and going.......

[Target70]

Torqdork: After seeing a properly installed (?) electric s/c participating in a local track day in another run goup, I tend to agree.

The system I saw required two 12V batteries wired in series (heavy, and I didn't have time to figure out the 24V wiring and charging circuit), could only run until the batteries depleted but before that happened an intake air overtemp protection circuit reduced engine output by putting the car into limp home mode after 10-15 minutes.

It would be effective for ¼ mile drags with adequate recharge and cool down between runs, but not so much for track or daily driving.

-------

It does require two 12v batts, but it also replaces the stock battery with a lightweigt compact battery. The factory battery is 30lbs, the 24v dump pack is about 26lbs, and the compact starter battery at 15lbs. So only about 11lbs more than the stock car, or 23lbs more for the 1.5 dump pack. (which produces about another 10hp/.5psi to redline) due to the additional available current.
I find it unlikely that the ecu increased IAT at all, as it uses the stock air box, and contributes no heat to the intake except the relatively low compression factor. (less than 5psi) between 1.5 and 2psi at redline(depending on your battery setup). More likely the motor controller overheated and went into protection mode, or thermal cutoff. The first is where it will reduce the amount of boost it provides, lowering the demand on the controller untill it cools down a little. The second is where it gets so hot it turns off completely to protect the system from damage, basically converting back into a stock NA car with a slight intake restriction, and a bad tune(as it is now providing more fuel for all the air it is no loner getting). The ESC is just not designed for track use. With enough cooling to the controller, and the soon to come out dual charger it is getting closer. This speeds up battery charging time, and splits the work between the two controllers so that the overheat problem is greatly reduced. But even with these things, the typical track driving style is not a good fit to the systems strengths. The ESC produces little gains at higher rpm's, and major TQ gains at lower rpm's. As you tend to stay in the upper revs on a track, you never get to use the systems greatest strengths. Plus the energy storage system is for more of a short term use. The ESC charges when not engaged at WOT, so a track with lots of long straights, will over tax the system, and not provide enough charge time.

[Target70]

edit and quote don't seem to be working.

Also important to note, is that the ESC does not have to cost at or over $3000. That is the fully maxed out setup. You can recognize ~85% of the gains with just the base system, on a single dump pack and a tune(OFT). So you can have a good low end torque setup, running ESC ~($1650), single dump pack ~($80), and OFT E85 tune ($500), for ~$2250, at a minimum weight gain, I think about +25lbs over stock

[joneze93tsi]

Honest opinion.....

The car in stock form felt horribly anemic. I'm talking looking at the tach to make sure it isn't broken slow. Mind you, I was coming from a modified 650hp~ 13 GTR so 90% of the cars felt slow, but this was just broken and unacceptably slow.

Then a funny thing happened, the more you drive it, the more you appreciate what it's purpose is. It's not stoplight races, 1/4 mile, or racing just about anything in a straight line other than a john deer tractor. It's just a pleasurable, old fashioned sports car in modern guise. Spend most of your time around corners, with the car in the 5k+ sweet spot and you suddenly start to love the car. It's fun, alive, and just sort of makes you happy driving it.

I recently got the OFT and switched to E85, and it's quite a notable change. Lots more torque down low, the dip is lessened and it just pulls quite a bit better. I'm glad I drove the car stock for a while or else I would not have appreciate the OFT/E85 switch as much as I do now. I think I'll grab the OFH and maybe a over/mid pipe and call it a day power wise.

I'm big into autocross, and this car just shines at it with simple mods. Easy to rotate, almost no understeer and I'm having a ball. It's like a modern day 240 with all the creature comforts one could want.

It's a great SPORTS CAR that anyone who doesn't live for the 1/4 mile or straight line speed will enjoy with a ear to ear grin.

[Mikengrace]

I also own a 2013 Corvette Grand Sport. That car is way fast, handles great, is smooth, comfortable and reliable. Yet, in most driving situations, I prefer to drive our 2014, Scion FRS. The comparison in power is almost a laugh. But, in many ways that is what I like about the Scion. It is so fun to use the power it has to its full extent. There is virtually no where on the streets where you can realistically or safely use what the Corvette has available. The Scion makes you work for it some, but that is the fun of driving it. It is plenty fast for almost every type of driving. Even when auto crossing. It just means you have to run it up in the rpm and take advantage of the great handling. The Corvette has the ability to leave the FRS in almost any situation, with out working too hard. It's just not as fun as using your skills and the handling abilities of the Scion. More power is always desirable, but I truly enjoy the balance of the Scion. Plus with more horsepower, generally comes less dependability and more stress on the brakes, suspension and driver. My Corvette cost three times what the Scion does. Yet, I find it to be just as good of a car. Just different. Now I just have to hope no other Vette owners are reading this.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by Mikengrace

I also own a 2013 Corvette Grand Sport. That car is way fast, handles great, is smooth, comfortable and reliable. Yet, in most driving situations, I prefer to drive our 2014, Scion FRS. The comparison in power is almost a laugh. But, in many ways that is what I like about the Scion. It is so fun to use the power it has to its full extent. There is virtually no where on the streets where you can realistically or safely use what the Corvette has available. The Scion makes you work for it some, but that is the fun of driving it. It is plenty fast for almost every type of driving. Even when auto crossing. It just means you have to run it up in the rpm and take advantage of the great handling. The Corvette has the ability to leave the FRS in almost any situation, with out working too hard. It's just not as fun as using your skills and the handling abilities of the Scion. More power is always desirable, but I truly enjoy the balance of the Scion. Plus with more horsepower, generally comes less dependability and more stress on the brakes, suspension and driver. My Corvette cost three times what the Scion does. Yet, I find it to be just as good of a car. Just different. Now I just have to hope no other Vette owners are reading this.

Gotcha

[WhiteFRS69]

ill just leave this here

http://www.carthrottle.com/watch-a-s...3-porsche-911/

[Chad86]

So in the meantime of waiting to add a Supercharger when my warranty runs out, is the OFT worth the money? Do you actually get a significant boost in HP?

http://blog.modbargains.com/expert-r...nflash-tablet/

[Reaper]

this car is not underpowered it has done exactly what Toyota wanted it to do on so many levels.


Many many immature kids flock to this car. That's why its tail happy and an idiot can drift it. Also why it doesn't have a lot of power.


Its a momentum car and favored by very skilled drivers. Much like the Miata and its cult following. It forces you to get better at the track.


Its cheap and durable. Spawning spec class racing. Like the Miata.


It attracts die hard enthusiast that know what it is and want to modify the hell out of it and make 500whp. Which then spawns a MASSIVE aftermarket/marketing/drifting/drag raceingish/hillclimb(evasive motorsports) culture that is the rockstar of the 86 world and shuts up the naysayers that its not a capable car. Remember, Toyota WANTS this car to be modified. That's why it has a scion badge in the US.


The car did it all.




also what @Mikengrace said. I come from the 2 wheel world and id rather ride a Honda cbr250r on slicks at 10/10ths on the street flat out (at the speed limit, lol) than ride my 220whp Suzuki at 1/100th or my ducati. They are monsters, but are frankly boring, exhausting and a waste.

[PHLonomenal]

@WhiteFRS69 Great vid. He wasn't sawing at the wheel much AND a blue hatchback ruined the lap. Impressive

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Chad86

So in the meantime of waiting to add a Supercharger when my warranty runs out, is the OFT worth the money? Do you actually get a significant boost in HP?

http://blog.modbargains.com/expert-r...nflash-tablet/

Yes, although I would not call it "significant" with a stock car. Having said that, I 'frickin LOVE mine. It's a totally different car.

[johnnyfast11]

worst thread ever. you need to go search first. or deactivate forum account.