86 (FR-S) vs BRZ real-time comparison on Tsukuba circuit attack by Nakaya

[yajin]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

I don't know guys, Tsukuba Circuit is a very short circuit, shorter then the Top Gear test track. 1.1 does seem reasonably significant to me.

I will try the Tsukuba w/ my 86 in GT5.....and compare it w/ mine

[jer305]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

So what I get from this is the BRZ is more DD friendly and the FR-S is more track friendly? I'm not a track guy so the BRZ would still be the car for me out of the two.

Is the Traction Control on or off in the video? It seems people don't remember about the safety switch and think the car will go crazy being a DD.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

I don't know guys, Tsukuba Circuit is a very short circuit, shorter then the Top Gear test track. 1.1 does seem reasonably significant to me.

Don't want to get into magazine racing too much, but the video shows it's pretty clear that the vehicles behave pretty different at the limits. Not many of you will be driving it at the limit so it shouldn't weigh your decision too much.

The 1.1 seconds is due to the BRZ slowing down too much before the turn at :30. If they did more laps I don't think they would get the same result. The video doesn't have enough information to draw any real conclusions. I'll wait for the article.

[yajin]

Originally Posted by yajin

Just as a reference, you can see a time atack review w/ the 86 on the same circuit, Tsukuba, in the latest "Hot-Version", vol 115.

http://www.hot-version.jp/main/digest.php?si=1115

I don't know who drove the 86 (and its spec) and what the record is.....

I didn't watch the video of Hot Version 115 yet, but found some blog review on it.
According to it, Tsuchiya drove the new 86 and got the record of 1'11"394 with a bit disappointment and some excuses. The spec is not written there, but seems the standard settings.
Source: http://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/...blog/26128242/ including some snapshots of the Hot Version video.

[KatHawkDown]

There can be no doubt that the BRZ understeers (like all Subaru's) much more than the 86. Still if I were lapping my local circuit I'd rather have the Subaru simply for the sake of consistency (and safety) even if I were down a few ticks on the FR-S's who were there.

[Alias]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

If you're trying to just drive fast on a track, you want your lap to look a lot more like the BRZ lap.

If I was trying to make great lap times I wouldn't be considering either car. Driving feel and fun is what this car is supposed to be about, not hp numbers or lap times. The frs looks a lot more engaging and thrilling than the brz. If you want a car that makes good lap times and understeers why wouldn't you get a wrx or mazdaspeed3? :happy0180:

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Alias

If I was trying to make great lap times I wouldn't be considering either car. Driving feel and fun is what this car is supposed to be about, not hp numbers or lap times. The frs looks a lot more engaging and thrilling than the brz. If you want a car that makes good lap times and understeers why wouldn't you get a wrx or mazdaspeed3? :happy0180:

Yes, and what is fun is different to everyone. To some people it is driving around the track with the ass end hanging out the whole time, to some it is keeping the racing line and clipping apexes, and a car with neutral handling is better for that. At the end of the day the tweaks to the suspension are so subtle it shouldn't be the deciding factor for anyone.

[RWD_only]

Originally Posted by SpeedR

I would not read much in to this drivers are not machines good drivers in a car at this level can easily have more than a seconds worth of variation between laps. It defiantly looked to me like the driver was pushing the FR-s harder and that’s where most of the extra speed is from. The difference in the cars handling setup is only a few lbs in the springs only fairly experienced drivers are going to really utilize the slip angle of the FR-S. I think most people will be happy with ether car and won’t ever be able to tell any real difference. So unless you have been doing lots of Auto-X and RR I would not be overly conserved about the differences.

To be fair, if a driver has a variation of ~1 or more (with no traffic) does not deserve to be called "good."

But you highlighted the important part which is while the Toyota was faster, the driver was working much harder compared to the slower but more relaxed Subaru. However, 1.1 seconds around Tsukuba is HUGE in cars that should be nearly identical but there may be mitigating circumstances that we're unaware of, (driver, fuel level, tire pressures, etc...)

[uspspro]

Honestly, a slightly bigger rear bar, or tuning some adjustable dampers a couple clicks can make these changes.

I plan on tweaking the car to suit my liking.

It's the same for motorcycles... The first thing you should do is dial in the suspension (sag, rebound, compression). Some may want to raise the rear (with a longer shock) or drop the front (by raising the forks) for sharper turn-in, etc.

I plan on driving the car stock for a little while, and learning everything about it. then tweaking the suspension to get what I want. If you are taking this approach, it won't matter if you start with a BRZ or FRS.

[RRnold]

The 86 driver was driving it like he stole it compared to the BRZ driver. Did they switch cars and resume the test?

The 86 seemed to have a stiffer setup.

[KatHawkDown]

Originally Posted by uspspro

Honestly, a slightly bigger rear bar, or tuning some adjustable dampers a couple clicks can make these changes.

...

I plan on driving the car stock for a little while, and learning everything about it. then tweaking the suspension to get what I want. If you are taking this approach, it won't matter if you start with a BRZ or FRS.

+1. The respective behaviours of these cars wont' matter to any of us who plan to do even mild chassis and suspension modification/tuning.

[lupehoops26]

Originally Posted by KatHawkDown

...I'd rather have the Subaru simply for the sake of consistency (and safety) ...

and why would you expect the cars to have any difference whatsoever in consistency or safety? Last I checked, they are built at the same plant, on the same assembly line, share 99.99% of the components, with the only significant differences in the fascia and interior comforts...

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by uspspro

Also, once you change the dampers and/or springs all of this comparison is thrown out the window!

This. Also, alignment specs will influence driving dynamics

If I pick one of these up I'll spring for grippier tires and stiffer dampers and an alignment that favors neutrality.

[Mango22]

-86 driver had dbl shot of espresso before doing his lap. The 86 was really loose on the turns. maybe because he was puttin the pedal to the medal and yes oversteer.

-BRZ driver drank a relaxing herbal tea and meditated during his lap.
He really didn't hold his gears like the 86 driver did. Yawn...

Personally, I don't care either way really. This, my version can beat your version stuff is... well, juvenile. Just be happy with your choice and enjoy your car. :happy0180: