Do you currently have a Kraftwerks Supercharger installed? I have a few questions

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

@CSG Mike
do you recall what kind of setups and conditions did they have when they cracked the OEM headers?

I've seen both NA and FI, but there's a few commonalities between the failures:

- High EGT
- Typically a lot of timing advance, to try to get more power (some of which is lost as a end result from high EGT)
- Richer AFRs in an attempt to bring EGT down as a result of the timing advance

This applies to even the early OEM ECUs...

As for logs, I meant on your next track (or canyon) outing!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gmsii

considering your agenda and how you have proven to be clearly biased, i think we would have to pass on your offer. also, if we are going to do an on-track comparo, unfortunately even though you would like to think of yourself as the local 'stig', you wouldnt even make our long list of test drivers. You are more than welcome to try and something out with one of the local KW owners and i will be more than happy to arrange a socal RWD hotshoe to handle the driving duties (maybe a craig stanton, billy johnson, or a james safronas type)

your comments are now trying to spin the idea that an SC kit is legitimized primarily based on its track presence. clearly you are grasping at straws. also, in previous posts there are clearly KW owners who take their cars to the track with no problems; and given the number of KW units being sold we fully expect that there will be increasing numbers of owners taking their KW equipped 86's to the track. what are you going to fall back on at that point? just face it, JR has been out designed and you are running out of marketing angles. and why won't you so quiet as to the real reasons why the JR kit is not upgradeable?

and why do you feel compelled to jump into a KW thread and spew your JR spin?

you know what....this is silly and tiring.
why dont we just let time tell all. the cream will rise to the top.

Are you saying I'm dishonest? Because I have a serious issue with that.

My agenda in testing your kit would be the same as any other, and my methodology would be the same:
- Drive the car to the point of imminent failure (or lack of)
- Minimal shifting (typically 3rd and 4th gear only, or 4th and 5th gear only)
- Have the owner in the car with me so that they can verify that I am not abusing the car
- No drifting (but slip angle is expected)
- Video and log everything
@Sterz: you had the last turbo car I tested. At any point would you consider my driving to be abusive or abnormal?


Every auto manufacturer does extensive track testing. Clearly, there is some importance to this.

Obviously though, I'm not worthy of driving the Kraftwerks car. I'm just the Stig's (much) slower and less talented cousin.



However, I'll take you up on your offer for a 3rd party hotshoe. We'll need to agree on the driver, but Billy or Craig would be just fine. Same criteria as above, we'll cover the track time, you cover the driver fee.

Does July 27th work for you?

[wahsaihin]

lol you guys are hilarious....

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Are you saying I'm dishonest? Because I have a serious issue with that.

saying you are clearly biased and have an agenda. i think readers of this thread would agree

Obviously though, I'm not worthy of driving the Kraftwerks car. I'm just the Stig's (much) slower and less talented cousin.

glad you recognize that...baby steps

However, I'll take you up on your offer for a 3rd party hotshoe. We'll need to agree on the driver, but Billy or Craig would be just fine. Same criteria as above, we'll cover the track time, you cover the driver fee.

let me clarify, i didnt mean arranging one car, i meant arranging numerous cars with FI kits for a back to back track test....nonetheless, if you arrange the cars, KW will arrange the driver.
and why would there be a driver fee?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gmsii

saying you are clearly biased and have an agenda. i think readers of this thread would agree

My agenda is to post quantified data. I'm sorry that you don't like that, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yes, my bias is toward the JR kit. It works, and it works well. I like things that work. I was offered an opportunity to test the kit (as well as Vortech and Inoovate), and it performed exactly as advertised.

Originally Posted by gmsii

glad you recognize that...baby steps

I understand that you lack confidence in my driving ability. That's okay! I don't mind letting a hotshoe we can agree on beat on our cars.

Originally Posted by gmsii

let me clarify, i didnt mean arranging one car, i meant arranging numerous cars with FI kits for a back to back track test....nonetheless, if you arrange the cars, KW will arrange the driver.
and why would there be a driver fee?

Done. All you need to do is show up to the next 86 CUP.

July 26th (not the 27th mentioned above) at Streets of Willow. If that doesn't work for you August 30 at Buttonwillow is also available.

Greddy, Vortech, and Jackson Racing cars will be available.

Please PM me your registration info.
- Car owner's Name
- Address
- Email
- Phone number
- Driver's name

*edit*
Would Emilio Cervantes work for you as a backup driver candidate? We'd need to fly Billy out from Florida to make this happen...

[Decay107]

Originally Posted by gmsii

considering your agenda and how you have proven to be clearly biased, i think we would have to pass on your offer. also, if we are going to do an on-track comparo, unfortunately even though you would like to think of yourself as the local 'stig', you wouldnt even make our long list of test drivers. You are more than welcome to try and something out with one of the local KW owners and i will be more than happy to arrange a socal RWD hotshoe to handle the driving duties (maybe a craig stanton, billy johnson, or a james safronas type)

your comments are now trying to spin the idea that an SC kit is legitimized primarily based on its track presence. clearly you are grasping at straws. also, in previous posts there are clearly KW owners who take their cars to the track with no problems; and given the number of KW units being sold we fully expect that there will be increasing numbers of owners taking their KW equipped 86's to the track. what are you going to fall back on at that point? just face it, JR has been out designed and you are running out of marketing angles. and why are you so quiet as to the real reasons why the JR kit is not upgradeable?...not even a peep. the elephant in the room is sad that you wont recognize his presence.

and why do you feel compelled to jump into a KW thread and spew your JR spin?

you know what....this is silly and tiring.
why dont we just let time tell all. the cream will rise to the top.

I'm sorry, I mean absolutely no disrespect here but do people really give a shit about upgradability in superchargers? That appears to be outside of the ethos of most supercharger kits which I believe to be a balanced trackable package that delivers the performance some feel has been lacking from the showroom stock car. Personally, I'd rather have a balanced package that is designed to be as good as possible from the beginning rather than one designed around allowing room for MOAR MAWDS! (not saying that is what is going on here for either manufacturer) The reality is, most people I know who are horny for power are currently chasing turbo kits...

[post_break]

This thread is getting interesting...

[loogs]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

My agenda is to post quantified data. I'm sorry that you don't like that, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yes, my bias is toward the JR kit. It works, and it works well. I like things that work. I was offered an opportunity to test the kit (as well as Vortech and Inoovate), and it performed exactly as advertised.



I understand that you lack confidence in my driving ability. That's okay! I don't mind letting a hotshoe we can agree on beat on our cars.



Done. All you need to do is show up to the next 86 CUP.

July 26th (not the 27th mentioned above) at Streets of Willow. If that doesn't work for you August 30 at Buttonwillow is also available.

Greddy, Vortech, and Jackson Racing cars will be available.

Please PM me your registration info.
- Car owner's Name
- Address
- Email
- Phone number
- Driver's name

*edit*
Would Emilio Cervantes work for you as a backup driver candidate? We'd need to fly Billy out from Florida to make this happen...

oh man i wanna be there for this XD

Originally Posted by Decay107

I'm sorry, I mean absolutely no disrespect here but do people really give a shit about upgradability in superchargers? That appears to be outside of the ethos of most supercharger kits which I believe to be a balanced trackable package that delivers the performance some feel has been lacking from the showroom stock car. Personally, I'd rather have a balanced package that is designed to be as good as possible from the beginning rather than one designed around allowing room for MOAR MAWDS! (not saying that is what is going on here for either manufacturer) The reality is, most people I know who are horny for power are currently chasing turbo kits...

this is exactly what i said in an earlier post

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Please PM me your registration info.
- Car owner's Name
- Address
- Email
- Phone number
- Driver's name

what are you talking about?...u arrange the cars, we'll arrange a driver

Would Emilio Cervantes work for you as a backup driver candidate?

haha...are you serious bro? swap out one JR monkey for another JR monkey?...let me give paul frank a call

[OICU812]

Well seems Mike has taken the bait and offered the challenge in full view, perhaps KW thought the fella was gonna go hide...

See if KW shows up and how this unravels. Gotta say no need for reality tv with these spicey debates!

Btw folks is there a database I can view that shows how many x amount of super chargers of x brand or turbo has been sold? I seen it mentioned how one sold significantly higher numbers of kits so looking for data or was that chest puffing?

Also a superior product should be backed with superior options that are needed. Not ever once should a possible customer be told "figure it out on your own" only thing they're going to figure out is who else to spend their money with, to me that sounds like bad engineering or an after thought and shouldn't be bragged about??

[D K]

Lets be honest about upgradeability here.

If you were going to upgrade, would you really just upgrade the charger?

Or would you consider bigger piping and maybe even a bigger intercooler?
As in 70% of your kit...


The other point is the only thing thats keeping the JR kit form being 'upgradeable' is the mounting bracket.
The bracket is relatively inxpensive.

And, I wouldnt be surprised if future brackets may have some adjustability



D

Originally Posted by Decay107

I'm sorry, I mean absolutely no disrespect here but do people really give a shit about upgradability in superchargers? That appears to be outside of the ethos of most supercharger kits which I believe to be a balanced trackable package that delivers the performance some feel has been lacking from the showroom stock car. Personally, I'd rather have a balanced package that is designed to be as good as possible from the beginning rather than one designed around allowing room for MOAR MAWDS! (not saying that is what is going on here for either manufacturer) The reality is, most people I know who are horny for power are currently chasing turbo kits...

[SkAsphalt]

No idea who GMSii is, have been reading CSG lead discussions for years... I prefer CSG's tone and professionalism.

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by D K

Lets be honest about upgradeability here.

If you were going to upgrade, would you really just upgrade the charger?


D

Let's be really honest here, if you are upgrading that much, are you not also cross shopping turbos? (Saying it before turbo guys come in here)

[glamcem]

in my opinion this test (you guys are planning to do) will be very boring and predictable
I mean..seriously... two different branded but same sized Rotrex kits (that are known by less heat generating abilities and reliability due to charger design) will be tested and logged at track and then what? I would understand if it would be a comparison of + displacement SC vs Garret turbo vs Centrifugal type (Rotrex) now that would be a good solid comparison..

What exactly are we trying to accomplish here? if they both have similar mods (tune, oil cooler and exhaust mods) they will most likely yield the same results (oil temps..etc)..the differences are in the design and only can make difference in the future (if a belt snaps, or intake needs to be cleaned etc..) think more like magazines' "Long term tests".. what are we really comparing? lap times? that wouldn't be scientific at all because one car may have $10k+ in suspension mods and ultra efficient aeros etc..

what else? third party "hotshoe's" subjective opinions? well that would be "subjective" not unbiased

:/