Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Target70]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

Those of you without fog lamps are making this look easy.

if it makes you feel any better, It took me a lot longer than 10 minutes.
hell it took me over an hour just to cut out the grille. Maybe 4 hours total not counting hunting down the parts. If I can get to a scanner, I'll scan my paper template with measurements, hopefully It will print out full size, and others can trace it onto card stock or right onto some sheet metal. The scrap I used was thin enough to cut with tin snips, but thick enough for the tabs not to bend.

Now that, that is done, I can work on remote mounting the battery (serious pain in the ass). I don't want to cut up or leave out my trunk interior, but you can't access the spare tire if the battery is mounted on top of the trunk mat. I'm thinking I'll have to bolt it down with butterfly nuts so you can move the battery out of the way if you need to get to the spare.

[Winjr]

Question:

If I want to remove the compressor and replace it with the original tubing (omitting the sound generator, which I'll cap), for the purpose of determining whether the compressor is the source of some difficulties I've been experiencing lately, is it safe to leave all other components (controller, harness, wiring, voltmeter/arming switch (turned off, of course), pedal switch) in place if it's all tethered securely?

Two problems, probably related:
1) Smooth, then rough idle. When it goes rough, cylinder #3 misfires like crazy.
2) Long hill at high speed: start it in 6th gear around 70 mph, by the time I've reached the top, I'm going 50. No significant cylinder misfires. Any time I put load on the engine, it struggles.

Doesn't matter if ESC is on or off.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Winjr

Question:

If I want to remove the compressor and replace it with the original tubing (omitting the sound generator, which I'll cap), for the purpose of determining whether the compressor is the source of some difficulties I've been experiencing lately, is it safe to leave all other components (controller, harness, wiring, voltmeter/arming switch (turned off, of course), pedal switch) in place if it's all tethered securely?

Two problems, probably related:
1) Smooth, then rough idle. When it goes rough, cylinder #3 misfires like crazy.
2) Long hill at high speed: start it in 6th gear around 70 mph, by the time I've reached the top, I'm going 50. No significant cylinder misfires. Any time I put load on the engine, it struggles.

Doesn't matter if ESC is on or off.

Perfectly fine just leave the system off and flash stock tune.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

If you look at the stage 1 Innovative SC kit (owner's thread), the Phantom TQ250 ESC bests it in torque and matches it in HP. Traditional FI needs 8-9lbs of boost to match the non-parasitic 4.5 boost of an ESC. Still, those kits will never match the simplicity, reliability and price of the ESC. The Phantom ESC is roughly $2-3k less if installation labor is factored in. Chasing 250 HP would only be worthwhile if it maintains the other advantages of the kit. Satisfaction is written first person in the words of those who either own or have rode in a Phantom ESC equipped '86. Sales are strong. Rob is expanding to Miata (via Shiv and Vishnu). Its a tightly focused product that as many have said is worth every penny. Try to get a ride in a local vehicle if you can, then see if 250 hp should be the factor holding you back.

ROFLMAO! Good one!

[shif7i7down]

Closes stock dyno # vs fi # that i could find to compare
compare.

Originally Posted by JD86

-JD86
-AVO Turbo Kit (BOV, Catch Can, First run 5psi Actuator)
-Cosworth Panel Filter, Motive Overpipe/high flow cat test pipe, Kakimoto Regu CBE, AVO base tune.
-4th Gear pulls, Dyno Dynamics Dyno
Attachment 47516

Vs

Shif7i7down
-100% stock car with phantom esc

[img=http://s14.postimg.org/enzdp54ht/CAM00443.jpg]

So yeah, DAEMANO is correct that the esc is comparable to our even better then other stage 1 fi kits. Even vs turbo kits

Edit; all claims are subjective to my own personal perspective, no ill intent to mislead or downplay other kits.

Also,this is just end user dyno vs end user dyno. I'm sure the manufactures dyno would look allot better :p

[bfrank1972]

Uh, that's the lowest AVO turbo dyno I've ever seen. I'm a big fan of the ESC, but claiming it's better (or even equal) it to a decent turbo kit (or even a decent centrifugal SC kit) is a bit much.

[shif7i7down]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Uh, that's the lowest AVO turbo dyno I've ever seen. I'm a big fan of the ESC, but claiming it's better (or even equal) it to a decent turbo kit (or even a decent centrifugal SC kit) is a bit much.

The whp output will be different from dyno to dyno we all know that, but there's no misconceptions here. It's stock number vs fi number. Both read roughly the same stock whp output and very close fi whp output.
So dyno numbers speaks for themself, The"claim" is my own personal thought and of course is subjective but You believe what you want to believe, as for me...dynos dont lie.

The comparison is not to see who makes the most hp. It's only to show fi whp vs stock hp increase. If you think that the stage 1 avo turbo kit is too low for your liking then you should contact the owner of that kit and ask him, I'm only quoting a post he put up in the dyno fi thread. Of course if you go to stage 2 avo turbo,the esc would lose in comparison. ^_^

Edit; maybe i should be a little clearer with my belief as to why i feel the esc is a better buy.
1. Stock hp vs FI hp increase ratio.
2. Price between the kits.
3. Ease of installation.
4. Simplicity of the kits, i installed the esc kit in 2hrs with minimal knowledge on fi systems. Would i beable to install the avo kit myself....maybe ....i could who knows.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Uh, that's the lowest AVO turbo dyno I've ever seen. I'm a big fan of the ESC, but claiming it's better (or even equal) it to a decent turbo kit (or even a decent centrifugal SC kit) is a bit much.

The two best comparisons are the base avo kit and the innovate supercharger. The Centri chargers all make way more top end HP but not usually until about 5000 rpm or even a little higher.

I don't think anyone is arguing that esc has more HP..... Just that when considering all 4 points above it has alot going for it for the price.

[DAEMANO]

This is easy,

Here are the numbers behind my post above Phantom ESC (the way most owners will run it) vs. Innovative/Sprintex Stg.1. More torque, nearly equal HP, better torque curve. Add e85 and the ESC sometimes matches a Stg 1 Innovative on both numbers. For a much smaller total investment. @dtek, In my case this is not spiruking, it's the sound of a person who took a risk, invested a fair amount of money and time to be rewarded with over-delivery on value and customer service by @Robftss (and @fenton) The enthusiasm is the sound of a satisfied owner. Odd to car forums that are generally filled with dissatisfied voices, trolls (overt or in attempted disguise), competing vendors with F.U.D. attempts, or worse. In the case of ESCs in general my prediction is that there will continue to be a growing chorus of content voices like the many you read here. @Robftss and @shiv@vishnu freaking nailed it.

The Phantom ESC is:

• MUCH less expensive
• Offers more torque with a better torque curve for street and track
• Nearly square with the Innovative on WHP. Sometimes bests the Innovative Stg1 in WHP when the ESC is on e85.
• Cheaper to upgrade to e85 due to OFT tune (thanks @shiv@vishnu).
• Less complex with fewer moving parts.Probably much more reliable due to solid state technology.
• Much lighter weight.
• Owner installable.
• Owner removable.
• "Trackable" with $35 upgrade (thanks @Thatruth2001 @nlowell @Sojhinn @Target70)

Phantom ESC
TQ25024V 1.5 + OFT - est $2400 installed
Install time - 2hrs does not require technical skills or special tools. Remove in 45 minutes for dealer visits

Performance
Pump 93 1.5x - 208 WHP - 192 WTQ @Thatruth2001
Pump 93 2.0x - 217 WHP - 195 WTQ @shiv@vishnu
e85 - 223 WHP / 201 WTQ @Sojhinn beta e85 tune without 1.5 dump upgrade or header. 1.5 upgrade will add est 6-10/6-10 - header will add est 6-10/6-9. Final est. 235-242 WHP/213 - 220 WTQ

Innovative (Sprintex) Stg 1 SC
+ ECUTEK Tune - est $3700 - est $4400 installed
Install time - 6 hrs - May require mechanic unless buyer is skilled mechanic (6x100hr labor = $600-$700). Remove in ??? for dealer visits.

Performance
Pump 93 - 225 WHP / 184 WTQ
e85 (add Flexfuel kit + Tune $1000) - 253WHP / 204 WTQ

Stg 2 - $4695 + $600 - $700 labor - est $5400 installed
Pump 93 - est 243 / 201 WTQ
e85 (add Flexfuel kit + Tune $1000) - 268/220



Innovative Stg 1 (as far as I could tell) OWNER LIST (by serial number/production date)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40066

FEBRUARY 2013 PRODUCTION
S5-210-050213-0005 @Alabang 86 160/--- 210/---
S5-210-050213-0009 @stockysnail 206/158 249/202
S5-210-130213-0003 @zcarter92 N/A 237/193
S5-210-130213-0013 @whataboutbob N/A 206/174
S5-210-140213-0002 @Assunta N/A 234/198
S5-210-150213-0003 @sw20kosh N/A 233/181 (pre 5/24 tuner)
S5-210-150213-0005 @xjohnx 185/149 240/199
S5-210-150213-0023 @swift996 175/161 236/196
S5-210-180213-0005 @NickFRS 190/150 239/203
S5-210-180213-0012 @DarrenDriven 163/139 244/199
S5-210-210213-0005 @evo4g63 N/A 242/197
S5-210-210213-0010 @Ethan 152/125 190/160
S5-210-210213-0020 @20firestorm13 N/A 225/184 (93) 253/204 (E85)

MARCH 2013 PRODUCTION
S5-210-080313-0002 @Kodename47 166/140 230/184
S5-210-140313-0003 @Ryan86 (Sprintex Stage 2) 154/141 268/220

SHORT SERIAL NUMBER? (MEANING?)
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @BerkTechnology 160/136 213/181 (pre 5/24 tuner)
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @Jerf 150/125 218/174
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @Pure Automotive N/A 266/216 (SC owner is shop's customer)
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @robispec 139/120 252/216 (pre 5/24 tuner)
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @TemeCal
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @trackjunkie 164/136 228/178

[DAEMANO]

... and by the way... My post above is not to start an Phantom ESC war vs. other Stg 1 FI kits. It's to illustrate the value of the Phantom ESC and OFT tune. Party on.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

... and by the way... My post above is not to start an Phantom ESC war vs. other Stg 1 FI kits. It's to illustrate the value of the Phantom ESC and OFT tune. Party on.

Watch it, Freddy may jump in with borla is awesome but needs new flex joints and dyno tune so no need to log gizmotastic comments.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

This is easy,

Here are the numbers behind my post above Phantom ESC (the way most owners will run it) vs. Innovative/Sprintex Stg.1. More torque, nearly equal HP, better torque curve. Add e85 and the ESC sometimes matches a Stg 1 Innovative on both numbers. For a much smaller total investment. @dtek, In my case this is not spiruking, it's the sound of a person who took a risk, invested a fair amount of money and time to be rewarded with over-delivery on value and customer service by @Robftss (and @fenton) The enthusiasm is the sound of a satisfied owner. Odd to car forums that are generally filled with dissatisfied voices, trolls (overt or in attempted disguise), competing vendors with F.U.D. attempts, or worse. In the case of ESCs in general my prediction is that there will continue to be a growing chorus of content voices like the many you read here. @Robftss and @shiv@vishnu freaking nailed it.

The Phantom ESC is:

• MUCH less expensive
• Offers more torque with a better torque curve for street and track
• Nearly square with the Innovative on WHP. Sometimes bests the Innovative Stg1 in WHP when the ESC is on e85.
• Cheaper to upgrade to e85 due to OFT tune (thanks @shiv@vishnu).
• Less complex with fewer moving parts.Probably much more reliable due to solid state technology.
• Much lighter weight.
• Owner installable.
• Owner removable.
• "Trackable" with $35 upgrade (thanks @Thatruth2001 @nlowell @Sojhinn @Target70)

Phantom ESC
TQ25024V 1.5 + OFT - est $2400 installed
Install time - 2hrs does not require technical skills or special tools. Remove in 45 minutes for dealer visits

Performance
Pump 93 1.5x - 208 WHP - 192 WTQ @Thatruth2001
Pump 93 2.0x - 217 WHP - 195 WTQ @shiv@vishnu
e85 - 223 WHP / 201 WTQ @Sojhinn beta e85 tune without 1.5 dump upgrade or header. 1.5 upgrade will add est 6-10/6-10 - header will add est 6-10/6-9. Final est. 235-242 WHP/213 - 220 WTQ

Innovative (Sprintex) Stg 1 SC
+ ECUTEK Tune - est $3700 - est $4400 installed
Install time - 6 hrs - May require mechanic unless buyer is skilled mechanic (6x100hr labor = $600-$700). Remove in ??? for dealer visits.

Performance
Pump 93 - 225 WHP / 184 WTQ
e85 (add Flexfuel kit + Tune $1000) - 253WHP / 204 WTQ

Stg 2 - $4695 + $600 - $700 labor - est $5400 installed
Pump 93 - est 243 / 201 WTQ
e85 (add Flexfuel kit + Tune $1000) - 268/220



Innovative Stg 1 (as far as I could tell) OWNER LIST (by serial number/production date)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40066

FEBRUARY 2013 PRODUCTION
S5-210-050213-0005 @Alabang 86 160/--- 210/---
S5-210-050213-0009 @stockysnail 206/158 249/202
S5-210-130213-0003 @zcarter92 N/A 237/193
S5-210-130213-0013 @whataboutbob N/A 206/174
S5-210-140213-0002 @Assunta N/A 234/198
S5-210-150213-0003 @sw20kosh N/A 233/181 (pre 5/24 tuner)
S5-210-150213-0005 @xjohnx 185/149 240/199
S5-210-150213-0023 @swift996 175/161 236/196
S5-210-180213-0005 @NickFRS 190/150 239/203
S5-210-180213-0012 @DarrenDriven 163/139 244/199
S5-210-210213-0005 @evo4g63 N/A 242/197
S5-210-210213-0010 @Ethan 152/125 190/160
S5-210-210213-0020 @20firestorm13 N/A 225/184 (93) 253/204 (E85)

MARCH 2013 PRODUCTION
S5-210-080313-0002 @Kodename47 166/140 230/184
S5-210-140313-0003 @Ryan86 (Sprintex Stage 2) 154/141 268/220

SHORT SERIAL NUMBER? (MEANING?)
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @BerkTechnology 160/136 213/181 (pre 5/24 tuner)
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @Jerf 150/125 218/174
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @Pure Automotive N/A 266/216 (SC owner is shop's customer)
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @robispec 139/120 252/216 (pre 5/24 tuner)
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @TemeCal
SERIAL NUMBER NEEDED @trackjunkie 164/136 228/178

very well written

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

... and by the way... My post above is not to start an Phantom ESC war vs. other Stg 1 FI kits. It's to illustrate the value of the Phantom ESC and OFT tune. Party on.

agree! They all have their benefits, but in my opinion and the opinion of other owners, for the price the benefits of the ESC cannot be beaten

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

... and by the way... My post above is not to start an Phantom ESC war vs. other Stg 1 FI kits. It's to illustrate the value of the Phantom ESC and OFT tune. Party on.

Holy crap my friend. I think I heard the mic drop at the end of that.