Autocar: BRZ vs. MX-5 vs. 370Z

[armythug]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

If you're into the horsepower war there are tons of options for you. The BRZ is an alternative to those cars for those of us who do drive mostly on twisty back roads and don't care about straight line speed. 200hp is plenty.

Thanks for your opinion but you have higher ups in Toyota that have already stated that it will be fine for us to make this car faster if we want. Even though we don't need Toyota's permission to do so, I thought that it was cool for them to make that statement. And as far as I know, quite a few enthusiasts will MODIFY their cars anyway. So if you are happy with 200. That's fine bro.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

We're not saying that more power is bad.

We're saying that 200hp is not the deal-breaker that the "Moar powah!" crowd makes it out to be.

I would LOVE for the car to have more power. But I'm not upset that it only has 200. The late 80s 911 had 207hp. Yes, car technology has advanced, but physics hasn't changed a bit. And if anything, those same advancements in automotive tech mean the BRZ can make better use of that 200hp.

No one has said the BRZ is fast. And no one has said they don't want more power. (Though there may be some argument on the best way to get more power) But I think those saying the BRZ is slow have lost their perspective.

One of the most fun cars I've owned had 70hp, no power accessories, and an open rear diff. And at the end of the day, that's what this car is about; fun.

it's a lot easier to add power to a car that already handles great than it is to take a car with crappy handling and make it handle well

Originally Posted by armythug

Thanks for your opinion but you have higher ups in Toyota that have already stated that it will be fine for us to make this car faster if we want. Even though we don't need Toyota's permission to do so, I thought that it was cool for them to make that statement. And as far as I know, quite a few enthusiasts will MODIFY their cars anyway. So if you are happy with 200. That's fine bro.

Cool story

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by armythug

Well since you asked, because I'm the type of enthusiast that likes to have power on tap. I guess it's a personal preference.

Like how much? 250? 280? 300? 350?

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

it's a lot easier to add power to a car that already handles great than it is to take a car with crappy handling and make it handle well

It's not easy to add torque unless you go forced induction or overbore/stroke the engine. Both of which require a lot of $ and fine tuning.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Like how much? 250? 280? 300? 350?

That's an unfair question. You can't just give someone a horsepower number and call it good. You have to consider weight, torque, and power band - not to mention traction.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

It's not easy to add torque unless you go forced induction or overbore/stroke the engine. Both of which require a lot of $ and fine tuning.

I guess it all depends on your goals. I think intake/exhaust plus ecu tune combined with some weight reduction will give decent gains but that all remains to be seen.

If you can reduce the weight to 2600 you only need 215hp to have the same power to weight ratio as a 2012 WRX.

[brewksy]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

That's an unfair question. You can't just give someone a horsepower number and call it good. You have to consider weight, torque, and power band - not to mention traction.

So... Uh... Basically you're saying that you'll have to test drive it first before you determine whether this car has enough power to satisfy you?

I think we're all in agreement.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

That's an unfair question. You can't just give someone a horsepower number and call it good. You have to consider weight, torque, and power band - not to mention traction.

Originally Posted by brewksy

So... Uh... Basically you're saying that you'll have to test drive it first before you determine whether this car has enough power to satisfy you?

I think we're all in agreement.

brewksy the finisher lol

@Bristecom
We already know the weight, why change the weight to confuse this discussion? It's not red pill, blue pill question here. I was asking his opinion, so there isn't any right answer to this, is it?

IMO FRS/BRZ's current weight/power is enough for dd. Then again, that's just my opinion, so just wanted to hear other member's opinion. Simple as that, not gonna flame him or ban him for stating his opinion (if he say 1,000hp/900tq then maybe flame him lil ).

So you can relax

[Khyron686]

Originally Posted by armythug

Well since you asked, because I'm the type of enthusiast that likes to have power on tap. I guess it's a personal preference.

I hope your WRX is at least stage 3, if not one of the fastest WRX's in North America. Because, as you say, you like to have power on tap.

[Sasquachulator]

Im curious as to what people who are considering the BRZ/FRS actually drive now.

If power is a major consideration it would put into perspective what they are coming from, whether its a 100hp slowass econobox tin can, a 300hp family car that has no semblance of driving feel whatsoever, a 300hp SUV that feels like its gonna tip over at a 1 degree turn, or a 600hp beastmode supercar that costs an arm, a leg, your first born, and your house.

[fatoni]

im not saying that this thing must have more hp in order to be a sports car or even a more useable daily driver. im just saying it easier to appreciate more power than more handling as far as commuting tasks go. its not what i would want buy it is more practical imo

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

brewksy the finisher lol

@Bristecom
We already know the weight, why change the weight to confuse this discussion? It's not red pill, blue pill question here. I was asking his opinion, so there isn't any right answer to this, is it?

IMO FRS/BRZ's current weight/power is enough for dd. Then again, that's just my opinion, so just wanted to hear other member's opinion. Simple as that, not gonna flame him or ban him for stating his opinion (if he say 1,000hp/900tq then maybe flame him lil ).

So you can relax

Well that's not a fair question. If we lived in a fantasy world then we could say, "Oh yeah, just make that 2.0L have 250 horsepower and 200 lb ft of torque." But in reality, if we want more power, we will have to add some weight with a bigger engine or forced induction unless we compensate with expensive lightweight materials.

I totally agree that 200 hp is a good amount for the weight of this car. However, since I understand how cars typically work/feel, the bigger problem is the torque and power band. Speed is not really fun to me. But the sensation of being pushed back into the seat and having responsive power always on tap is.

I have not driven this car so I don't know how satisfied I will be with the power. I am pretty certain I will like it more than any other NA 2.0L I have driven (Miata, S2K, etc). However, I feel like the engine may be a little underwhelming/disappointing to me and to many people test driving this car. But I truly hope that does not turn out to be the case and it ends up really impressing me.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Well that's not a fair question. If we lived in a fantasy world then we could say, "Oh yeah, just make that 2.0L have 250 horsepower and 200 lb ft of torque." But in reality, if we want more power, we will have to add some weight with a bigger engine or forced induction unless we compensate with expensive lightweight materials.

I totally agree that 200 hp is a good amount for the weight of this car. However, since I understand how cars typically work/feel, the bigger problem is the torque and power band. Speed is not really fun to me. But the sensation of being pushed back into the seat and having responsive power always on tap is.

I have not driven this car so I don't know how satisfied I will be with the power. I am pretty certain I will like it more than any other NA 2.0L I have driven (Miata, S2K, etc). However, I feel like the engine may be a little underwhelming/disappointing to me and to many people test driving this car. But I truly hope that does not turn out to be the case and it ends up really impressing me.

Chill, just chill. Put away your weapons & shields. You're getting crazy work up for simple question. I'm not expecting right answer from my question. I'm not trying to argue, just trying to get simple opinion.

If he answer "240hp", I would of responded "Cool, bro ". If he say "900hp" then... well maybe I would of responded "You're on crack".

[exmayol]

People claiming 200 hp / 2700 lbs car is not sufficient for DD should definitely stop using strong drugs. Most DD out there have a power to weight ratio that is worse yet somehow manage.